Concerned about feedback re: fake sounding MIDI

[mikeymike2000]

Dear Screener 332:

I would like to start by saying I usually get great feedback and advice on how to improve and have used this to improve.
However, in regards to listing Y120504IN you made the following comment:

"You have done an excellent job on the overall orchestration of these pieces. Your tracks sound good, however- per this request "This is a first time TAXI listing for this Library and they're ultra-selective, so we'll only be able to forward the absolute best submissions! Orchestral samples MUST sound authentic, and the production warm and resonant. In other words - no fake sounding MIDI!" Some of the sounds/samples that you are currently working with are not as competitive with what this particular library is looking for. I have enjoyed listening."

The reason I am posting this up is because on the track you made this note I used real strings. Actual humans played the violins you were hearing. I am concerned that if in the future I go through the expense of hiring real players the song may still get rejected because it sounds fake....

If there are samples out there that actually sound better than real instruments I would love to know its name. The cost to do this one song was comparable to one of those "$500 libraries", of which I did buy after other feedback from different tracks.

had you said it was something with the music or structure then I would not post this comment and then use that to improve my composition. But because you are calling my live players not high enough quality I would like to know what is the standard here.

PS I waited an hour before posting this cause I did not want to "fly off the handle" so to speak but I think it is fair for me to post theses comments and my question of the authenticity of the track in question.

Again, I usually agree with and learn from the feedback I get and appreciate it. This comment though makes me question TAXI as a whole. I hope Michael will get word of this post and perhaps provide some clarity. I joined November of last year. Learned tons and enjoy TAXI TV. Went out on a ledge to blow your socks off by sending in real instruments and then told it sounds too fake.

Where do I go from here?

PPS this same exact track was forwarded to another listing by another screener and given all 9's on the ratings.

Sincerely,
Mike

[davewalton]

Any chance that you would post the listing and a link for us (non-screener types)?

[mikeymike2000]

The listing is no longer on the TAXI site but I copy and paste ones I'm interested into word so I have an outline and deadlines to work with. Here is a copy of the original listing.

"NEW LISTING -- ORCHESTRAL ARRANGEMENTS of CLASSICAL MUSIC - both ORIGINAL and PUBLIC DOMAIN - needed by Production Music Library specializing in high profile TV and Film placements. This is a first time TAXI listing for this Library and they're ultra-selective, so we'll only be able to forward the absolute best submissions! They're looking for instrumentation typically found in the Classical world - think Mozart to Bach to Brahms and beyond! Styles can range from Baroque to Romantic - but NO avant-garde! You have a little flexibility here but be sure to remain true to the genres requested. Again - compositions can be ORIGINAL and/or PUBLIC DOMAIN COVERS. Compositions should be accessible to a large audience with motifs built around major chords. Orchestral samples MUST sound authentic, and the production warm and resonant. In other words - no fake sounding MIDI! Please send in songs with FULL instrumentation - NO solo piano or guitar. Broadcast Quality is needed (great sounding home recordings are fine). This library offers a 50/50 split. Please submit one to three instrumentals online or per CD. All submissions will be screened on a YES/NO BASIS ONLY - NO CRITIQUES FROM TAXI - and must be received no later than Friday, May 4, 2012.
TAXI # Y120504IN "

I prefer not to post active links to my site here because they show up in Google search and this is where I ask/answer questions that the general public does not need to see. If you would like to listen to the song in question it is on this page (just remove all spaces) and it is called "Jarden de la Reine"

www . original music for filmandtv . com / sample-tracks

It is 3rd from he top.

The question here is "does this sound real and authentic or does it sound like I used MIDI"?

[davewalton]

Of course I have the benefit of hindsight but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mistake this as midi. Having said that, from just a recording/production standpoint, the recording seems to be a bit muddy. I think I should be able to follow (more or less) any one of the instrument lines but other than the melody, I'm having trouble picking out what the other instruments are doing, particularly in the lower end. I don't know if it might be reverb issues or maybe the placement of the mics, or both? Speaking of which, the piano sounds *way* back like he/she is in the very back right corner of the room. I think too, the reverb/mic issue (whatever it might be) is also giving the performance a looser feel than you might be wanting.

Since this was described by the screener as a super-duper high-bar listing, the recording itself (and maybe the performance a bit) might hold it back. You could certainly ask for a rescreening based on the reality that these are real instruments, not midi and see what happens. Taxi is always very accomodating on legitimate requests for rescreening.

FWIW, the screeners themselves don't usually come online but some of these comments are printed and posted for them to see. For a true rescreening you'd have to contact either A&R or Submissions...

http://www.taxi.com/abouts/contact.html

They're very nice. Hope that helps!

[Casey H]

Alternatively, you could drop an email to headscreener ..AT.. taxi dot com asking for another listen and clarification.

I don't have the expertise to comment on the mix.

Best of luck!
Casey

[davewalton]

Alternatively, you could drop an email to headscreener ..AT.. taxi dot com asking for another listen and clarification.

Make sure you don't send it to headcleaner ..AT.. taxi dot com... that's the restroom janitor. He's never any help.

[Casey H]

Alternatively, you could drop an email to headscreener ..AT.. taxi dot com asking for another listen and clarification.

Make sure you don't send it to headcleaner ..AT.. taxi dot com... that's the restroom janitor. He's never any help.

Gives new meaning to "submit a good, clean mix"...

[mikeymike2000]

imitation... equals...flattery dot com

Dave, this was the desired effect for this piece. The piano was in the background and the four strings are at the front of the stage and we are waltzing around in the early 1900's. But I can see that the cello and viola could be brought up a bit.
I also agree that a little less reverb would make it sound more crisp. But that is not the question here.

Appreciate the comments and tips.

[rnrmachine]

If the screener said what he/she said and you used real violins then I would suppose it's a safe bet the screener wasn't talking about the violins. You getting upset at what the screener said then assuming he/she was referring to the violins assumes the screener is an idiot imho... and posting this here in this way is a knee jerk reaction to the sadness of rejection. I can see this because IF ya had really thought about it you'd say to yourself... well the violins are real so I KNOW he/she wasn't talking about that... it's ok, I'm not chastising you, just pointing out something to ya I think needs to be pointed out... because I care.

Now, I listened to your track and my money would be that some of the backing tracks, at times, don't sound as performed as they could. There are spots that sound a bit off, like the stabs. They don't sound fluid like a performance would, they sound a bit disjointed, more like you're orchestra is rehearsing and not doing that part very well... I almost expect to hear the conductor stop the music and give them grief over it... SO you DO have a "realistic" sound going here since I am getting that in my head. IT could be that you are changing the timing but I don't think that's it... so it needs fixing.

Get the piano tweaked to sound more like someone who takes pride in a solid performance is playing it rather then someone who is just trying to get some piano into a mix to add variety... you're definitely too much in the latter on that.

Btw, the violins sound great... I would bet $$$ the screener wasn't referring to them at all.

MAYBE the mix could use a small cut at 200Hz ... but it sounds good to me.. I like a TINY bit of mix that some MIGHT call mud in a piece like this. I really like mixes that blend well... great separation of all instruments is good sometimes BUT a good pad sound, well blended, is awesome when done well. There's a reason so many instruments will play with the intention of blending with each other.

Great composition... get each track to sound authentically played when solo'd and you'll get this past the screener next time. Again, the violins sound great.

[cardell]

Of course I have the benefit of hindsight but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't mistake this as midi. Having said that, from just a recording/production standpoint, the recording seems to be a bit muddy. I think I should be able to follow (more or less) any one of the instrument lines but other than the melody, I'm having trouble picking out what the other instruments are doing, particularly in the lower end.

That's what I thought too.

Also, the mix sounded a little louder on the left which I found distracting...sorry.

Stuart