The Latest on 'Current-Sounding'

[rnrmachine]

Current - Always seems to be a new twist on old things.

On the engineering side: Is it dry? No! - I have read and hence noticed, a lot of mixes will have the early reflections with no tail. Compressors are used like FX more than just utilitarian, NY style/Parallel compression. Other FX is used subtly and stuff is layered immensely. These guys are masters of using quality EQs. Thus it tends to sound dry but isn't. We all know how a completely dry recording sounds and it's obvious these mixes are not completely dry or they wouldn't sound like they do. They are worked smart, hard, and gone over everything with a fine tooth comb. First by assistants then by the engineer himself. Also, notice how mixes change as the parts change. For the most part, there is no longer a "static mix" with elements going in and out like in the past. The verse will often be a different mix than the chorus. I know I have done it, as well as many others, try to submit a static mix to a listing where not one a la has a static mix... then wonder why we got a return.

I barely scratched the surface on this side of it. I sadly can't go into detail without writing a book, something I am not qualified to do anyway hehe. All I can say is... if ya want to learn current "engineering techniques" prepare yourself for reading a lot of crap to find those rare gems of info. Search "current names" for interviews and read read read. Watch the occasional video interview too of course.

We all wish CLA (or someone similar) would write a book or do a online course. But the top current ones never do. They don't have the time when they are the current hot engineers. So it's up to us to "reverse engineer" what they did...

Music side - IF ya know theory you're a HUGE step ahead of the rest. You can fairly easily dissect the arrangement of MANY current hits and write/arrange appropriately. IF ya don't know theory but ya learned a lot of past music, you're music is gonna tend to sound like it's from the past... To remedy this, learn a lot of current songs. OF course, if you mix too much like the past and your arrangements sound like the past well... you're gonna sound dated.

IF you want a house (mix) that looks like your neighbor's then ya try and get their blueprints (sheet music/tablature). IF not then ya hire an architect that knows certain things just by looking at the structure (engineer/producer that knows current techniques) and they can immensely help you. OR you can go to school lol. IF none of these are viable options for you then I suggest you bing/google/yahoo everything you can think of, pertaining to current mixing techniques/production/arranging, and read.

Now, having a book that teaches you older techniques is a good idea too. Who do ya think taught these guys today?! This is what they have expanded upon.

Have fun and hopefully this will at least help someone get a leg up.

[mrwonderful]

VERY very interesting writing!! Thanks for your well-composed, learned response...have you ever considered writing a book yourself?

I will re-read and ponder this in the next few days...I'm just playing catch-up after a couple of trips!

Kind Regards, Jordy

[rnrmachine]

VERY very interesting writing!! Thanks for your well-composed, learned response...have you ever considered writing a book yourself?

I will re-read and ponder this in the next few days...I'm just playing catch-up after a couple of trips!

Kind Regards, Jordy

Thanks Jordy, I try to give very accurate information and if I don't know something I usually just read and don't chime in at all lol. But this an area where I have spent years, reading and reading, practicing all I have read and then do it all over again haha. In this area I truly enjoy helping others. I would love to write a book and put in everything I have found, learned, sponged, etc... which is VERY extensive. All the tricks.. and there are MANY tricks, anyone who tells you different is BSing you. For instance... I read in an interview where this engineer, "Don't Fear the Reaper" it was, as a matter of fact, put a PA speaker on the floor facing up, took the snare track direct mic and ran it into the speaker, put the snare on top of the speaker, mic'd it and recorded that onto another track then blended it in with the original track... into the mix ROFL. Now THAT's engineering for ya eh?!! There are so MANY things that recording and mixing engineer's have done to make their sounds special and unique it's mind boggling and pretty much impossible to keep track of it all without keeping notes.

Sadly, I'm just not "anybody special" for someone to trust that what I am telling them is legit so they actually would buy my book . You basically have to read what I say, try it, and find out for yourself if what I am telling you is really true and or a viable technique for a modern mix. One thing for sure is... I hate when my time is wasted reading poor info, and God knows I have wasted a lot of time looking for those RARE gems SO I NEVER want to waste someone Else's time with poor info. Also, a lot of my info, I was only using for myself so I never wrote down references BUT if I did, planning to write a book, I think it would take half the book to list all the direct references... seriously haha.

Since ya liked that I thought I'd share this; Here's a little trick I came up with on my own, when I was working with stereo drum samples that were "too stereo" for my tastes, as well as for the particular project(s) I was working on. I have done the same with bass guitar as well.

Create a MONO bus. Send the whole kit into it with moderate to heavy compression and it will add punch and "center" the kit while keeping the stereo spread, while adding realism. This was a necessity when I was using "Artist Drums" created by "Best Service." The stereo spread was too much to get the hard panned guitars to work AND the kits lacked the PUNCH I wanted and the realism they needed. Since then I have refined this into a blend of what is commonly known as parallel compression (NY style comp).

Here's the refined version of what should be done. Especially if you are using a sample kit and you want a modern sound AND your sampler/kit allows you to send all the different aspects of the kit into separate tracks:

Create a MONO bus. Put an EQ on it then a compressor... (btw, it's common practice to place the EQ before the compressor. This tends to be more forgiving, this I read, tried, and thus and realized was true. EQ after the compressor is fine too and MIGHT be what ya want, but in common practice, you put it before the comp.) ...Now you send either the entire kit to the MONO bus, which I rarely do anymore, which you over compress BUT how much you over compress depends on what all you're sending here. IF the whole kit, you want less, IF just the kick for a NY style comp (parallel compress) then you squash the hell out of it, slow attack, FAST release. Same with the snare, toms, etc... AND you want a mono buss for those as well EXCEPT keep the toms stereo IF parallel compressing them.

NOW if you leave the over heads out of the parallel comp you tend to get a more relaxed airy drum sound that still has a ton of punch like more modern recordings. Putting the OHs into a bus with a para comp will change the sound immensely and you would use this accordingly, depending on what you're after. Try both so you get an idea of what the differences are and you might just start to recognize the differences in other recordings. You'll find yourself going.. OMG, I know what they did there... I can hear it Now, on the kick you would tend to put a boost at 100hz (for American) or 60hz (for British) on the para bus and MAYBE cut it on the original track. This helps the low end stay controlled, punchy and centered. Cut the para track where you will boost the bass guitar...

The same thing with the bass guitar, just boost it at the opposite frequency of the kick and cut where ya boosted the kick. IF using stereo samples keep that main track stereo and the para track mono. Also, more often then not a low shelving cut on the bass up to 250hz then reboost the desired "focus" frequency with an EQ that is known for sounding great on the low end, for instance the Pultech EQP-1 is very famous for what it does to low end. Waves and UA both make a plugin clone that have impressed many folks with how good they sound, me included although I must admit, I think the highs on that plugin sound a bit better than the lows do. I REALLY like how the new NI EQ G and E channel clone plugins sound. I think the low end sounds awesome when boosted after a slight shelving cut. All of this will help you achieve something that sounds much more modern on the low end of a mix.

BTW, an 1176 style compressor is amazing for the previous tricks I mentioned as well as being place directly on the "room" track. IF the "supplied" room samples are too big (VERY common in samples) then you need to find a quality, OR not so quality if that's what you're after , reverb that will give you the size you are after.

I'd put a lot more info on how to fine tune the sounds of each one, snare, toms, etc... but I don't wanna make the post so long no one wants to read it, which I may have already done... hehe

Take care and good luck in all you do!!!

John

[mojobone]

^^^^This is a great, and really common technique; those of you that have Addictive Drums, try it; it's easy in AD, and you'll start to recognize it, and other similar techniques in other peoples' mixes. Of course, you can also do it with real drums, samples or what have you, but you need outboard or VSTs and separate routing for a number of drums submixes.

[rnrmachine]

^^^^This is a great, and really common technique; those of you that have Addictive Drums, try it; it's easy in AD, and you'll start to recognize it, and other similar techniques in other peoples' mixes. Of course, you can also do it with real drums, samples or what have you, but you need outboard or VSTs and separate routing for a number of drums submixes.

When I first came up with it I hadn't learned about parallel comp yet. So I am not claiming I invented the internet... hahah... I was just a bit proud of the fact that I had my own idea, which I had shared with a salesman at GC and he liked the idea, later telling me how grateful he was for sharing it with him. Apparently he had never heard of parallel comping either haha. This was at least 6+ years ago. I've learned a lot since then.

I thought I would add in a basic setup for a serious drum structure. This is presumed you either have a fully mic'd kit or a softsynth that has all these abilities. (start with a 1176 style comp if you don't know what you're doing) Of course all direct mics on their own tracks, OHs and room on their own. Having a mic on the hat and ride cymbal is preferred as well. ALL tracks should have the same compressor on them as the para/mono bus. IF your sequencer (Sonar, PTs, Logic, etc...) auto adjusts then you do not NEED to do this, but if not, then you NEED to so the delay is equal) In Sonar, 90% of the time I don't have issues if I do not have the same, once in a while I do and the phase issue is very obvious. You should hear it when listening for it. As you add in the para track it will lose oomf instead of creating it.

IF doing a triangular mic technique, mic the kick and 2 OHs, then you'll want to use more than a normal amount of compression on the OHs IF you even use comp on the OHs.

Kick - add send to mono bus = EQ/compress (slow attack, FAST release for all para comp tracks. Unless of course you decide you want different.)
Snare - add send mono bus = EQ/compress
Snare - add send mono bus = distressor OR some form of distortion
Snare - add send stereo bus = stereo chorus/EQ (tighten the width ie; spread from left to right, ie; how wide) SOMETIMES compress AFTER the chorus/EQ.
Snare - add send stereo bus = short gate (adjusted to fit the song and probably tighten the width) SOMETIMES compress AFTER the gated verb/EQ.
Toms - add send stereo group bus OR have the tom tracks output directly to this tom buss depending on the sound you are after = EQ/compress (of course you can do each tom individually and this would be more important in a song heavy laden with tom work.)
Overheads, Room, Hat, and Ride do NOT para comp unless you know you want to. So just send them to the drum bus.
ALL Drums to a stereo bus; Everything should come into this final buss, track outputs directly here and para buses via the sends to buses to here. In most cases you would only lightly compress here AND most likely want to use a VCA style compressor here, on the drum bus master.

Now there may be times when you want a silky high end gliss type sound on the cymbals and this would alter greatly how you treat the OHs. Highpass fairly high. AT least to 100hz. You want no low end coming out of this track as well as a low shelf fairly high up. You work the "Room track" in to glue the kit and use the OHs become the glistening. This technique tends to sound a bit more dated as a number of past decades have done this type of drum mix when using 30ips on a tape deck... probably because they could haha.

Now, you will want to use highpass and lowpass EQ... BUT sometimes you might wanna do that AFTER the compressor not before. Careful using too much high and low pass on a softsynth, it's easy to eat the realism right out of it where on a recorded set of drum tracks you spend a lot more time cutting fairly hard on each track.

Of course there are no hard fast rules, you can do whatever you want, but I promise you, if you follow this your drum tracks will sound amazing.

There is soo much more I could to go into... what, when and where to EQ and so on...

In general, if it Thumps the main frequencies are between 100-500hz, if it bangs 1k-5khz, if it jingles above 5khz. Obviously subs are below 100hz (more often than not, below 80hz) and more open room reverberations will be above 10k, 10k at the lowest, but more often 11k-15khz-ish seems best, (done on the overheads but when using a room mic as well be careful). More cymbal will be roughly 9k-10khz. And the "honk" in the snare, the most important factor to control in a snare imho, is right at 1.2khz. Sometimes ya want more, sometimes ya want less and that is the frequency you're after.

Anyway, I hope I helped someone, anyone, out there... sure would hate it if I wasted my time haha. I think the main reason I like to help is because I have always been helpful. Also, when I listen to other peoples music, I prefer to hear their music, not their short comings as a mixing engineer lol.

Good luck and all ya do!

[mrwonderful]

Wow...talk about 'encyclopedic knowledge'...now I REALLY have to read thru this. Always so busy, with important stuff too!

Anyway, interesting about 'Reaper'. I also have a little inside-dope about that song, namely, in the finished single there's supposed to be like 100 edits. (I did some work @ the Record Plant NYC...the engineers said you'd watch the 2-track roll by with more splicing tape passing the heads than recording tape!) One can hear at least SOME of them...now I can't NOT hear them!

Similar to the trick you described is this (from, I believe, the same RPlant engineers): If you want a tamborine to clap JUST EXACTLY when the snare hits (like say on a big 70s ballad) I've heard of the snare track being fed out to a speaker, put the tamb on the speaker so it rattles with the snare hit, and mic it so you pick up just the tamb.

RE EQ-before-Comp or vice versa: People say 'it depends' but in my world I will almost always put the EQ first...otherwise the comp is tracking a signal that's soon to change. Why not present the compressor with the exact signal?!?

thanks for all your expertise! see ya later...Jordy

[rnrmachine]

...RE EQ-before-Comp or vice versa: People say 'it depends' but in my world I will almost always put the EQ first...otherwise the comp is tracking a signal that's soon to change. Why not present the compressor with the exact signal?!?

thanks for all your expertise! see ya later...Jordy

The two main reasons you put the EQ before the comp, that I have read and learned, is that it is more forgiving of a "not so seasoned" set of hands. I remember when I read this and decided to try it. And I immediately noticed how, if I boosted the EQ too much, the compressor softened what I did. Boosting the same amount AFTER the comp yields a more raw sonic change while exposing those with more amateur hands to the listener...

You also control the shape of the frequencies, the sonic shape of the track, that will trigger the compressor. For instance, Let's say you highpass a really bass heavy, tuned low, kick drum @ 40Hz. Now you just altered how the compressor is compressing that signal. It's no longer being triggered by anything below 40Hz. Unless of course, the kick just has WAY too much low end and the highpass slope... (Slope: Refers to how steep the "hill slopes down to the valley") ...isn't enough.

Example: Let's say you're loving how the compressor sounds when the track, without EQ pre Comp, is driving it. You usually can get a nice "pumping" action here (pumping: OFTEN used in rock, hard rock, and so on. The unique effect of the volume/gain level being engaged and disengaged so quickly when triggered by a low frequency thump, most often, a kick drum. When used in this manner on a mix bus, or during mastering, the compressor being trigger by the kick, which also effects everything else in the mix, obviously. This will cause the mix to get louder and softer creating an action that is so well describe by the term "pumping" that industry professionals collectively adopted it as what it's called, there is no other word for it that I have found.) When the bass (low end frequencies) triggers the engaging of the compressor circuitry AND OR emulation of, as in most of our cases lol,.. quite often you will find that EQing the kick AFTER the compressor is choice. You get the comp pumping a bit then shape the low signal, using the EQ post Comp, into how you want it or better yet, how you NEED it to be in that mix, taking into consideration how much will be strong in the mix and how many instruments there are going into the mix.

IF you find you want more low end from your kick prior to going into the comp then pop an EQ in there, go right to a low shelf boost, maybe as high as 250Hz. Be careful up there though, you steal room for the warmth of bass guitar. Now, back on EQ post Comp, IF you happen to find you have boosted a little too much around 250Hz but ya love the way the comp is triggering it then use an EQ post Comp and trim around 200Hz to grab some of the space back for the bass guitar. On a fairly narrow bandwidth (Bandwidth, often called "The Q", is how many adjacent frequencies are boosted and falling into a "Slope" so in turn the wider the bandwidth the more adjacent frequencies and the more gentle the slope, especially needed on a larger boost when boosting the treble end of the spectrum. The EQ after is to be treated delicately, 2db increments at most... meaning 2db, then A/B, and so on. This applies to ANY tracks and or buses no matter what is going through them whether is horns, keyboards, guitar, violin, etc... If you know ya need more then give it another 2db...

BE SURE to play with the compressor. Slow attack with a fast release is often preferred in drums. It allows that initial hit to sound bigger on a recording. I am SURE you have noticed how easy it is to get quiet things sounding BIG in a recording. But keeping big things, like drums, to stay sounding big in a recording is much more difficult...

Something to try: Run a rock mix through a compressor and get it pumping. It's ok to be have a bass heavy mix here. Only bass heavy enough to get a pumping effect of course. Now, EQ post Comp, high AND lowpass the mix. On the high pass, start as low as possible and slowly move up the frequency numbers to hear the differences. No exact numbers here, but for reference, let's say, start at 20Hz, if ya can, and sweep up to 100Hz.

I would be doing you a disservice if I didn't tell you about side-chaining. So here it is...

Sidechain: Which is taking an audio signal from one source, such as a kick, and using that signal to "trigger" the compressors circuitry now IN PLACE OF the actual audio signal that is entering the compressor. The compressor will compress the mix BUT only making it's gain reductions as if it was placed on the kick. This is a cool effect AS well as used for "Ducking"...

Ducking: Let's say the bass guitar is not playing well with the kick, dominating it a little bit and you need something to tackle that last little control that you can't achieve any other way. You put a compressor on the bass guitar, LAST in line of ALL FX so you don't alter the bass sound any, OR at little as possible. Side chaining from the kick prior to the bass guitar getting it's own compressing would be disastrous. SO it MUST be the last in line! This way you can keep that bass sound that you worked hard to get and you don't wanna do anything to it so you're stuck... well Ducks to the rescue lol. You side chain FROM the kick like this...

Place Comp after ALL FX and turn on "Sidechain" on the comp.
Insert a send from the kick track and point it to the sidechain on the comp on the bass track. TIP; FASTEST attack ya have with a fast release BUT a fast release is tempo, style, genre, etc... dependent. Slower songs MAY warrant a slower release so adjust according to your song.
Adjust your send level to get it triggering the comp so when the kick "HITS" this hit turns the bass guitar down. Set the release time, JUST right, so the bass guitar jumps right back into prominence, like ya had it. Be careful here because you WANT the bass guitar to be heard when it hits exactly in time with the kick. So you only go JUST ENOUGH so the kick suddenly appears into the mix. Nothing more fancy than that here. In this example anyway.

more info to come if I see you are still reading and asking questions...

I remember being told that same situation, but it was in the beginning of "Bohemian Rhapsody" with all the vocal takes... the edits were so much it was layers of "repair tape" holding that whole section together lol. I hope the splicer guy made some overtime pay for that one right?! haha.

Oh I decided to check and see if I had bookmarked that interview and I had... Obviously because it had a number of "gems" in it hehe.
http://mixonline.com/recording/tracking ... index.html