Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

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RogerG
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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by RogerG » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:23 pm

Hi Mike

Try googling "mastering compression". There is tons of stuff online concerning compression since it's a very involved topic. But well worth learning what you can as compression is pretty much expected nowadays in modern music, and will give your projects that extra shine. This was a personal hurdle of my own as well and I'm sure as rain I still don't always utilize compression to it's best potential...

For your project though, my first suggestion to you is to zero out all of your tracks so you're basically starting over with your mix. Put a compressor on your master bus and make sure all of your tracks are going through it. Then mix with the compressor on. A typical ratio is 2:1, but you should learn what each knob is supposed to do on your own. That's way too much information to cover here. In this scenario, you are in effect mastering as you go along. EQ'ing on your main bus is also common (plus the EQ that you've done per track hopefully to give every instrument it's own little sonic space). If you intend to give this to a master engineer later, then yes you would mix without any compression on the main bus, and let him or her add that later (in fact they get a little irritated if you hand them something that already has compression on the main bus, they can't really do their job at that point). However that route is expensive and really not necessary as you can get near commercial quality with a little bit of work, and A/B'ing (taking a commercial CD you like the sound of and trying to get similar volume and sound). This can be frustrating as h#ll just to warn you. You may not be able to get quite to their volume without it sounding terrible. It's better to be quieter and not squash everything instead. As Mazz said, it's going to get compressed some more if the track is broadcast anyway, so don't be too concerned about the volume (within reason of course). The more important thing is that the overall mix is well balanced and clear.

My second suggestion is to try as many different bus compressor plug-ins as you can get your hands on. They're not created equal. Hardware-wise they certainly weren't and most compression software nowadays is trying to emulate one kind of hardware compressor or another. I can guarantee you most members have compressor plug-ins they really love (ask around I'm sure they'll tell you :lol:), and others that make them gag. For example I have something called Boost that was included with my DAW. It's ok for quick and dirty compression and it's all automatic (only two knobs involved?!). However it s#cks royally at being a bus compressor. It's anything but transparent. That's one of the main things you want which means you don't hear the compressor kicking in and out except in extreme circumstances (or if you're doing it intentionally because you want that effect for some reason). It's just louder with all the tracks performing as a whole (the glue that you'll hear people talk about occasionally).

Hope that helps for whatever it's worth. Sorry if this was a little long. Happy googling! :D - Roger

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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by cardell » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:15 pm

mikeymike2000 wrote:When I play on the beat I am told it sounds quantized... if I play freely and especially when I add rhythmic nuances I am told it sounds off. I respect the comment but there must be some middle ground to satisfy the listener and the artist :lol: so how do I find that middle ground?
I can hear what the screener is talking about. I'm not a fan of quantizing...but if I'm really stuck: there is a % quantize in Studio One. 60-70% can do wonders. ;)

I can also hear the compression issue. If it was me I would:

1. Use the parrellell compression trick on the drums. Therefore, the drums go through their own seperate compressor.
2. Mix the entire mix gently into the bus compressor as you go, rather than put it on last (which is what it sounds like you've done to me).

The good news: this is very, very good track!!! :shock:

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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by Len911 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:55 pm

mikeymike2000 wrote:
pedrocosta wrote:You can still turn up the drums in the mix. Just turn down the amount of compression on the master bus. OR for that matter turn down the other elements, leave the drums as they are. This will give more headroom and likely the compressor will be ok. Hope this helps.
OK, these fancy things are new to me. If I am turning down the compressor does that mean I am going from ratio 4 to 2? Or does that mean I turn the "threshold" knob to a higher value dB value? Or both?

While I am at it, is it better to keep the volumes of the individual tracks at a near "0" level and adjust the faders on the mixer or keep the mixer faders at "0" and adjust the volume on the individual tracks? I think I have a hodge podge right now.
There are probably many things you can do, cubase even has a midi compressor that comes in handy. Imo the problem with your drum compression is the transients. Transients are very fast, so if you set a fast attack time and also a fast release time, the heavy compression would only clamp down on the transients and by having a fast release time shouldn't affect the rest of the drum signal. You might have too long of a release time. The threshold is the setpoint when the compressor starts lowering the volume and the ratio is by how much. 1/1 is nothing, 2/1 is more, 4/1 is even more, 10/1 is considered limiting. Mixer faders either attenuate or amplify a signal, they are ideally left at 0 and the volume adjusted from your instrument, mic pre, or the source.
Problems should be fixed before you ever get to the master buss limiter stage. In other words put the compressor on the drums before you get to a limiter. Ideally you could split the kit and have a track for every piece in the kit and treat each drum separately.
Quantization? You might play around with the swing quantization and the percentages. I think swing keeps beat one on track and adjusts the other beats for the swing factor. It seems to have a more natural human feel imo than any of them.
It's hard to know exactly what you are doing, but in summation my guess is that you have an extreme ratio and a slow release time, that is catching the transients, but it is releasing so slow that it is attenuating after the transient has ended into the rest of the kit, causing the "pumping" sound. By dividing the kit to separate tracks and by even further dividing the troublesome notes to their own tracks you could better prescribe the doses of compression or limiting. But it could just be something simple as turning down the volume a little on the rogue piece.
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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by mikeymike2000 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:06 pm

Thanks Roger, Stuart and Len for the compressor comments. I see I have a lot to learn in this aspect.

OK so to everyone who has commented and those just joining... I put a remix up. Started from the bare bones and noticed some issues.

First, the "quantizing" and "off sync" I found issues with the horns and strings that I am pretty sure made this happen so there was definitely an issue. - Fixed, at least to my ears.

The compressor: the original mix (still up) had the master compressor flipping like a giger counter. (I thought that was a good thing) NOW it is basically at zero with only a few flicks here and there but nothing near where it was. I think that is what ya'll we talking about. Also I had attempted to add some velocity X fader to the strings and horns in the first remake that was also contributing to the up and down volume. That has been removed.

So, this is much cleaner AND I added the button ending. It is called Jesse's Theme Take 2. (BTW, if anyone wanted to know... Jesse in the title refers to Jesse Livermore :D ) The only issue I have with it is that the last chord needs to sustain a smig longer. But I welcome any other suggestions to be prime time material.

Appreciate everyone's comments. I have been learning a **** load on this board!! :)

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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by RogerG » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:34 pm

Hi Mike,

Much better in my opinion. You might bring the drums either down a bit or everything else up as to my ears the drums are sitting on top of the mix right now. See what others say though. - Roger

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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by pedrocosta » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:54 am

Nice! night and day difference from take1 :)
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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by ocean » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:05 am

Dig it! :D
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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by ricchi » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:44 am

A lot of things can be done to "fix" it, but it gets the point across that the ad is looking for.

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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by mikeymike2000 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:35 pm

Thanks Roger, Pedro and Ocean! :D
ricchi wrote:A lot of things can be done to "fix" it, but it gets the point across that the ad is looking for.
Ricchi, I appreciate your time to listen but wonder what exactly you mean by this comment? What is "broken"? :?

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Re: Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

Post by RichardCharles » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:20 pm

Hi Mike,


I was going to talk about the timing issues, but I see on take #2 you pretty much wiped them out. To me is was the piano not hitting the downbeat of one properly. Correction, I am still hearing the piano missing the downbeat of one...not as bad but still there. If you miss that downbeat of 1, the band/audience doesn't know where the one is and makes it uncomfortable to listen to imho. Of all the beats you want to nail in time the downbeat of 1 would probably be the most important (with all due respect to the downbeat of 2 and 4)


I do appreciate that the 3 againt 4 feel is not the easiest thing to lock into.

Also, the piano sounds like it is mixed stereo. Then again, I've been reading a book by mixmaster "mixerman" so I am a bit under his spell at present. He is into LCR mixing BIG TIME! I am just saying it might open up your mix in the middle nicely to make room for putting the trumpet right smack dab in the middle and really announce and get people's attention that something important is about to happen.

"The stength of the stereo field is the space it offers for the entire mix, not the individual parts within the mix." Mixerman

Also, the ending to me should more lush...like a fermata at the end.

It's a good track, don't give up on it!

Good luck and best wishes

(Also, very nice very subtle reference to teanage wastland- at least to my ears)

Rich

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