Dramatic News Instrumental Cue

[mikeymike2000]

Hi Mike,


I was going to talk about the timing issues, but I see on take #2 you pretty much wiped them out. To me is was the piano not hitting the downbeat of one properly. Correction, I am still hearing the piano missing the downbeat of one...not as bad but still there. If you miss that downbeat of 1, the band/audience doesn't know where the one is and makes it uncomfortable to listen to imho. Of all the beats you want to nail in time the downbeat of 1 would probably be the most important (with all due respect to the downbeat of 2 and 4)


I do appreciate that the 3 againt 4 feel is not the easiest thing to lock into.

This is a common theme for me now as I find my "style". I am not sure what to make of it. For me, it is not an intentional 3 against 4 I was going for that is just how the piano track came out in feeling when I started it. I tend to do a lot of this kind of thing and when I play or listen it just feels right. Because this specific remark has come up here and other places I will try out the possibility of the downbeat but I may go back to this one. - For me this is kind of like saying "he likes the color blue but dude, nobody likes blue". I feel out of place (no pun intended). It will be interesting to hear it the way everyone else wants to hear it. I will put up another mix in a day or so cause this really hits home and I want to find out if I am "flawed" or "just different".

Also, the piano sounds like it is mixed stereo. Then again, I've been reading a book by mixmaster "mixerman" so I am a bit under his spell at present. He is into LCR mixing BIG TIME! I am just saying it might open up your mix in the middle nicely to make room for putting the trumpet right smack dab in the middle and really announce and get people's attention that something important is about to happen.

"The stength of the stereo field is the space it offers for the entire mix, not the individual parts within the mix." Mixerman

All of my tracks are in stereo, I don't know how to do anything but this.

Also, the ending to me should more lush...like a fermata at the end.

It's a good track, don't give up on it!

Good luck and best wishes

(Also, very nice very subtle reference to teanage wastland- at least to my ears)

I will check the end, it was a rush job. No plans to give up on this or any other song. Thanks for the time checking it out and writing about it, Rich.

Lastly, you are the second person to comment on Teenage Wasteland. I get it, it is kind of there, a little bit maybe... not intentional at all it just happened so no plans to take that out. I guess the Who influenced me more than I thought.

[mikeymike2000]

OK I am hoping ya'll are still checking this thread cause I just loaded up a new version. Take 3. This is the final version and it is a question of is 2 or 3 better? The only difference aside from the ending ringing out like it should is that three piano chords in the chorus are moved to the one beat. All else remains the same.

I would like to know what version feels better to everyone. I have my opinion but will wait to post it cause I want to hear what you think about this "off sync" issue in the piano in version 2. Did it 'work' in this song or is it better and 'in the pocket' more with the downbeat of version 3?

Thanks for listening! http://www.taxi.com/mikejriso (Jesse's Theme take 2 and 3 )

[Len911]

Number 2 is better to me. In number 3 the piano doesn't have the urgency, is too laid back imo, especially @ :20 mark. Number 2 sounds more like a news cue. Maybe number 3 sounds more "new jazz"?? But then if you're going for jazz, I'm not sure about the symphonic horns??
Ultimately you should go with your opinion!

[fusilierb]

I wasn't sure which version to listen to so I picked #1 and 3. 3 sounds best, so I'm figuring that is the right one. I like the piece, it's 4 AM so I can't really listen very loudly (I'll listen again tomorrow at a good volume).

For what it's worth, I never put a compressor on the master buss for music that mixes orchestral and rock elements. It always squashes things to death for me. If you want the drums to sound bigger, either compress just that track OR (I think you said you're cubase) create an effect track and load up a compressor there. Then using the mixer view "send" the drum track to that effect track and blend them together, with the effect track being lower in volume. You could always pick one of the built in compressor setting for drums as a starting point and then bring that effect track up slowly until you get the meat you want without squashing the drums. That will leave the rest of the tracks out of the compressor and then you can blend to taste.

I don't hear any timing issues with the piano line, some of the other parts might need to be tightened a bit around that.

Your button ending is a bit off to my ears. It sounds like you just sat on a trumpet note and a legato one at that. I'd smack that last note with a chord in the piano, very staccato. Choose a staccato note for the trumpet and put a drum hit under it maybe even a tight cymbal crash. Really close it out.

I'll listen again tomorrow when I can hear it louder and can really listen to the string and brass parts.

hth's

EDIT: I apparently missed an entire page of comments. Apparently you wanted me to listen to 2 and 3. Sorry.

[RogerG]

Hi Mike,

This is probably an odd viewpoint/suggestion so take with a big grain of salt, but have you considered the first half of #2, and the second half of #3 (starting at about :40)? I like the beginning of the #2 because it feels more urgent like Len said. However the drum feel is better later on in #3. But only my opinion as always. - Roger

[mikeymike2000]

Cool! Thanks all for the feedback I really appreciate it, more than you know!

Len: (def not going for Jazz in this one) The version I liked most was 2, I did not like 3 until after a few listens then I thought it did sound kinda better and it grew on me but but I still liked 2, so I think I will just keep with that. - I can understand the comments made about it but it was written that way and that is how I "feel" it should be played. The only reason I tried out 3 was cause I keep getting comments not only on this song that it seems "out of time" and that is part of my style, it just happens. I thought I was flawed but even if I am, that is what makes me me.

Fus: These are good ideas, I will try them out for sure but I think I am done putting up remixes cause after I try these out it will most likely be "complete". Thanks, man!

Roger: I am not sure what you mean because the ONLY difference between 2 and 3 is the piano track, and only 3 chords at that. Although I did add a smig of reverb on the trumpet in v3 so maybe I will take that out and only compress the drums like Fus suggested. - Also it is 3:20 am here so I may have to re-read this in the AM

Thank you to everyone who has commented. I have learned a lot about mixing / mastering and it is just awesome that we can put our stuff up and get tips and advice from each other. - Being alone in the studio gets, well lonely sometimes and having other ears to bounce ideas off is just great! I really feel like this is complete now. Go Jesse, Go! Tell the world

[RogerG]

Hi Mike,

Yeah I went back and listened again. I don't know what I thought I was hearing the first time. Sorry. #2 is still my preference. - Roger

[Len911]

Flawed, out of time? I don't know, what does this mean?:

"Polyrhythm is the simultaneous use of two or more conflicting rhythms, that are not readily perceived as deriving from one another, or as simple manifestations of the same meter.[1] The rhythmic conflict may be the basis of an entire piece of music (cross-rhythm), or a momentary disruption. Polyrhythms can be distinguished from irrational rhythms, which can occur within the context of a single part; polyrhythms require at least two rhythms to be played concurrently, one of which is typically an irrational rhythm.[2]"

1) New Harvard Dictionary of Music (1986: 646). Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.
2) Novotney, Eugene D. (1998: 265). The Three Against Two Relationship as the Foundation of Timelines in West African Musics Urbana, IL: University of Illinois

Isn't 3/4 timing basically just pushing the accented beat to beat 4 of a 4/4 time signature?

I suppose it kinda makes sense that what distinguishes style and genre the most is rhythm, maybe second is instrumentation, but the notes and harmonies seem to be drawn from the same pool, although a few chords are generally reserved for certain styles. Just thinking out loud,lol!

[mikeymike2000]

Thanks, Len. That makes me feel better. I'm "poly rhythmic" it even has a title, how cool is that!?

[AndyKotz]

There IS a difference between poly-rhythmic and just having bad meter... no excuses in music for bad meter.
In this argument, a drummer that can't keep time may consider himself "poly-rhythmic"... I , on the other hand, would consider him fired!