Bad News For ASCAP Members

[rpittelman]

When I read about this change my first thought was that this was done because the amount of vocal music that is being used as underscore has greatly increased over the last few years. I understand the complaint but if the music is functioning as background underscore it shouldn't mater whether it has vocals or not. The music is functioning the same

[peeyo]

Call me biased. But I think songs with vocals have just a little more value when it comes down to certain uses for certain scenes. Any tv show or movie where there's a scene with music coming from a jukebox or something similar will want to use vocal music to "keep it real" so to speak. Unless its a dance club scene with techno music, dubstep, etc. playing, they are not going to have an instrumental piece playing (yes, period films or shows may be a different case). They want to make the scene as realistic as possible. Also, vocal music plays an important role in shows like Grey's Anatomy, Vampire Diaries, etc. the lyrics almost become part of the script. I would say that raises the value significantly.
So that's my 2 cents on why songs with vocals carry a little more weight. I agree that the difference in value was far too lopsided before, but I still think there should be more pay for vocal music.

I'll be here all day stirring the pot.

PO

[deantaylor]

Yes I saw this too. Didn't like it.
Thanks peeyo and others for sharing your thoughts. Helped me understand it better.

1. I plan to contact ascap. Anyone done it yet? Anyone know the best way? email or thru member access?

2. Are upfront licensing fees generally more for vocal songs that are in the foreground vs background? Maybe this is how the disparity that peeyo sees is/will-be addressed?

[rpittelman]

A friend of mine said he spoke with someone at ASCAP about this and they said that part of the reason for doing this was due to the fact that many people had been literally adding a word or two to instrumental tracks. Thereby calling them vocal tracks. ASCAP felt as though some people were abusing the system so they changed.

I don't know how accurate this information is but that's what I heard

[Kazak]

This thread makes me realize 3 things:

1) It's good to be with BMI.

2) I am glad I did my own backing vocals. The girl I hired came totally unprepared to the recording session & messed up a lot. She was hired at a rate much more than the musicians who were so totally prepared & highly professional.

3) No instrumental piece on TV has ever had 100,000 downloads on iTunes in one night

Alicia

[cardell]

Not backing vocals in songs... in video... So, that means that anytime they can call it a backing track and get away with it, they will.

In others words, people who write songs, not instrumentals, just got a pay cut.

That is unfortunate.

But from all of the cue sheets that I have, the majority of placements were background instrumental songs anyway. Most of the uses for songs with vocals were VV uses (visual vocal).

I hope that people do not make a huge deal about this. I do not want people to feel bad about a situation they have no control over. Music is a very tough business to make a living from. It is not for the weak or weary.

I did not intend to cause chaos. I just wanted to point out that if money is the primary reason to get into music, that may not be the smartest choice. There are many great careers that require less stress and more financial reward.

Besides, why get angry when you can make music? Money comes and goes. Just focus on making excellent music and let the chips fall where they go.

Seems to me DI you are pointing at The Emperor's New Clothes

Yes, people can get irritated when the "elephant in the room." is discussed...eh?

I like DI and I like you guys. In fact, DI is easily one of the most professional (acting) people I've collaborated with on these forums (I'm talking about in PM's).

Sure DI often acts as "Devil's Advocate" but I really appreciate that. Also, he's among the (more) "successful" people here...so I listen to what he has to say as well [as listening to you guys].

Stuart

[DesireInspires]

I like DI and I like you guys. In fact, DI is easily one of the most professional (acting) people I've collaborated with on these forums (I'm talking about in PM's).

Sure DI often acts as "Devil's Advocate" but I really appreciate that. Also, he's among the (more) "successful" people here...so I listen to what he has to say as well [as listening to you guys].

Stuart

Thanks.

Folks shouldn't get too riled up by my statements. There are many paths to success and my path is not the best or brightest. Follow your own leads and set your own examples.

People need to hear more success stories. Your story is important too.

[billg1]

I've only had one song with vocals used on a major broadcast network but it has been used regularly on Halloween for the past few yrs. It had been earning close to 1k per use for 47 sec. Now this year (after the reduction) it was $95 and change. I can understand leveling things a little between instrumentals & vocal tracks, but that's a hell of a paycut!

[cardell]

I've only had one song with vocals used on a major broadcast network but it has been used regularly on Halloween for the past few yrs. It had been earning close to 1k per use for 47 sec. Now this year (after the reduction) it was $95 and change. I can understand leveling things a little between instrumentals & vocal tracks, but that's a hell of a paycut!

...Oh wow, now I understand.

Stuart

[eliotpister1]

I haven't read all the replies to this post, so forgive if I'm restating something somebody said, but...

I was at the PMA (Production Music Association) meeting in April in Vegas when they announced this to the membership, and there was a big sigh of relief and some clapping in the room when they said that bg vocals and instrumentals were going to be paid out at the same rate! My first thought was immediately, "so which rate is meeting which"? I think general the presumption was that they'd meet in the middle, since the PMA announced at an 'accomplishment' but yep, it was not the case. I was dying to ask for clarification, but Q&A period never happened...

This is really disappointing to hear, and I'd expect the PMA to lobby ASCAP for a reversal (or correction) of this decision. I'm a member, so I'll definitely tell the PMA leadership that this is NOT cool by us!

Keep the pitchforks sharpened, townspeople!

Cheers, Eliot Pister.