"Traditional" vs. "Hip" Confusion

[bradrose]

Hey All! There was a listing recently that called for a 30-second song to be used in a commercial. Michael did a couple of webcasts on it, playing songs that were forwarded and returned, and I sat in on those. The requirements for the listing were pretty stringent and I made a point of following them very closely. The listing called for a style that was "hip" and "pop/indie rock." My song was returned and the screener wrote:

"Dear Brad, I find that the drums especially are taking this more traditional rather than "hip" "pop/indie rock" as requested."

First of all, let me emphatically say that I DO NOT DISAGREE with this analysis. I have been told several times that my music is dated. Having said that, I am confused by what constitutes "traditional" vs. "hip." I listened to most of the songs that Michael played on his webcasts, and there were a couple of forwards that I thought didn't sound that much different from what my song was doing.

Michael did a webcast a couple of months ago or so, about what is "indie rock" and "indie pop." Many of those songs sounded like they were right out of the '60's. I grew up in the '60's and '70's so I know what music from that era sounds like (maybe that's why my music is "dated."). Those songs were considered "Hip" because they were "retro." WHAT?! When is something cool because it's "retro" and not cool because it's "dated?"

But sorry, I digress. Getting back to the listing, what about drums makes a song sound "traditional" as opposed to "hip?" Can someone shed some light on this? I would greatly appreciate your feedback. I have attached a link to the song in question. Hope it works. I couldn't attach an MP3. The song is called "A New Day." Link: http://www.taxi.com/bradroseborough

Thank you in advance,
Brad Roseborough

[Russell Landwehr]

Hi Brad.

Welcome to the forums.

I like the guitars and the bounce/groove of "8 Doors Down."

About the drumson "A New Day"... I'll put my 2cents in here and hopefully others can add to it or give me some change back

To me, when I listen to the drums in "A New Day" and try to figure out what the screener meant by "traditional," I hear drums that sound like the usual well-mixed studio drums. Whereas I think for Indy and Retro, the trend is a bit lo-fi and almost 60's drum sounds (comes from the actual instrument itself)... plus drums that sometimes have a lot of room and/or mic bleed. The concept I think of when I see "Indy" is low budget and raw. This doesn't mean that the song and mix have to sound like crap... just raw.

(Your treatment of drums on "Can't Get Enough of You" in the lo-fi sections makes that drum track trend toward "hip.")

Now as far as the Difference between "Retro" and "Dated," this is an often discussed topic here in the forums. But I think the consensus is that it is in the delivery. Using older sounds and playing them in a modern style and/or giving a "nod" to the older performance style would be "Retro." Playing older sounds in an authentic older style is... well, "Authentic." As long as you are submitting to an "Authentic" listing. If you submit something like that to a "Modern" or "Retro" listing, then it becomes classified as "Dated." Also, playing modern sounds in an older performance style, I believe is usually "Dated."

A young person emulating an older style will seem "retro" because they've already been trained by life to be "modern" and "hip." An older person emulating a cutting edge style runs the risk of seeming "dated" because they've already been trained by life to be "dated." I think that it requires complete immersion in a genre in order to perform it "authentically."

You could do a "search" of forum posts about the Retro/Dated topic.

Again, Welcome to the Forums! I wish you the best.

Regards,
Russell

[andygabrys]

interesting answer Russell - that makes a lot of sense. thanks!

sometimes you can't really tell from critiques whether they are talking bout the actual instrument sound, or the part being played, or the whole resultant vibe.

but traditional drums is what you got.

hip drums might be:

sound - a melange of two kit sounds (i.e. an acoustic kit with an 808 electronic kick of short duration and a synthetic sounding snare with claps)
part played - the influence of a 4 on the floor kick drum (quarter notes) from dance music crossing over into rock is pretty huge. so many bands have that kind of feel. some styles downplay using the hi-hat as much as well, maybe substituting tom patterns.

put those together, and you can have a different bass feel,cause you are not locked into the pattern you played originally lining up with the kick - cause the kick is playing something more open.

[bradrose]

Hey Thanks Russell and Andy! My first post and you guys have shown what I have been hearing all along about the Taxi forums: That they are full of really helpful folks with really helpful info! I hope that I can be as helpful to you guys or someone else as time goes by.

I checked out your Soundcloud pages, and really liked what I heard. "Ronteri Rain" has a very cool guitar vibe going on, and "Searchlight" has a great retro groove. I thought "Tall Grass" was cool too, being a guitar guy.

I totally get the drums on both pieces as they relate to my song "A New Day." You guys were really helpful, and being able to listen to your music really clarified a lot of things and gave me some ideas to play around with.

And thanks for the kind words on "8 Doors Down."

Thanks again, guys!
Brad