IP Listing...very unhelpful critique from Listener 362

[lucis]

I have read a few members complaining about screener's feedback, I never had much cause for concern in my case as I have usually found them helpful and coherent.... until this one :

The listing :
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OPTIMISTIC and UPBEAT INDIE POP or INDIE ROCK SONGS in the general stylistic wheelhouse of "On Top Of The World" by Imagine Dragons, etc., are needed by the HEAD of A&R at a top-shelf Music Publishing company that specializes in pitchinn add a "feel good vibe" to a scene or even better, an ad campaign! Quoting the source: "We need positive songs. We're also not looking for anything too electro." Be sure your songs have easy to digest, instantly memorable hooks, infectious melodies, bouncy handclaps or finger snaps, and maybe even some whistling or la-la-las, or do-do-dos. Organic instrumentation is probably a good idea for this pitch. UNIVERSAL and GENERAL lyrics are critically important for this pitch -- avoid specific names, brands, dates, times, places, and detailed storylines that can conflict with dialog or a story line. Give them the olg to Films, TV shows, and Ad Agencies. They're looking for HAPPY, BRIGHT, and RHYTHMICALLY BOUNCY songs that ca' "I feel good," "It's a beautiful day" stuff they love for TV spots. MALE and/or FEMALE vocals are BOTH OK. And as always, do NOT rip off the referenced artist in any way, shape, or form. Use them ONLY a reference for tempo, tone, and overall texture. This company is NOT looking for a sound alike song! Give them something fresh that they can license all over the place! Broadcast quality is needed (excellent home recordings are fine.) You must own or control 100% of your composition and master recording. Please submit one to three songs online or per CD, include lyrics. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Wednesday, May 22, 2013. TAXI #S130522IP
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My song : Hold Me That Way Now : https://soundcloud.com/lucis-starling/h ... at-way-now


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Listern 362's comments:

Style : "On target for this listing"

Overall Comments :
"
Thanks for submitting this track. Unfortunately, it's not hitting the mark for this listing. { WHAT ???! }

For starters, I think your melody could be improved. I think it needs some changes, more progression, make it more interesting and intricate for the listener. Try adding some unexpected twists. ( OMG !)

The recording could be improved as well. It's important the recording stands up when compared to on broadcast songs because that's what the track is competing against. Music supervisors won't listen to a less perfect recorded track, they don't have time. {...WAIT FOR IT...please see what 362 says under the heading "Sound Quality"..}

Also, it'd be nice if the track has more energy, a little more of that HAPPY, BRIGHT, and RHYTHMICALLY BOUNCY as the listing put it. More driving and deliberate percussions."


Sound Quality : "Not great, but clean enough for this listing "

The main reason(s) you were or were not forwarded for this listing is: "Not on par with the referenced song in style and technique." ( I can bear that ! ...On Top Of The World is a GREAT song !

But this stuff hurt...cut my fragile little ego to the bone ..it did :


Melody: 4
Lyrics: 6
Marketability: 4
Song Structure: 5
Production: 4
Engineering: 5
Musicianship: 4
Lead Vocal: 5 &

Recording could be improved, not quite broadcast quality. ..... ( see 362's comments on Sound Quality ! )

I know this person only got $ 5 for this...but I want my money back.. !!! Not because the song didn't get forwarded...but because this screener seemed to have his or her mind on something else and seems to careless about the positive function of the feedback. Robin you better schedule this screener for a review or retraining session. This effort should leave you and unfortunately for me it's just plain discouraging....!! Well I'll move on to the next song. You know the TAXI moto right? : write, submit, forget, write some more !

If any of you guys would like to score/ allocate marks to the song I 'd like to see... if I'm really as below average as 362 seems to hear me. Guys don't go easy on me ..but please BE NICE...as Michael would say !

[Casey H]

Hey Lucis
I agree with the screener that the sound quality is below BQ here. I would say the only mistake the screener made was checking "Not great, but clean enough for this listing" when that's not the case as he/she noted later.

Keep in mind that the review and scores are with respect to the given listing which was *ULTRA* high bar. When you see words such as, "the HEAD of A&R at a top-shelf Music Publishing company", that tells you how high the bar is.

For THIS listing, the songwriting probably got lower scores than it might have received for another listing. It's not a bad song, it's just not the GREAT song they are looking for here.

Regardless, getting your sound quality up to par is something you need to do in order to compete in today's market.

MHO is you got solid, tough but honest feedback from the screener and I can't see why Taxi should give you a refund.

Best,
Casey

[DesireInspires]

Screener gave a solid review to me.

Time to move on.

[lucis]

I stand humbled and corrected by 'A/The King' and 'desireinspires' !
Your depth of experience and efforts in TAXI speaks to my inflated head and deflated morale.

Casey/ DI...besides "keep on keeping on" .... have you any tips on how or where I can go/learn to get my production skills bumped up that doesn't require too many bucks? ...( i got plenty of time but not much disposable dough though !)

Thanks for the hard words well spoken...I needed the echo to let the first voice sink in. Yes maybe not checking that box would have made the difference.

I might try a "poor me" lyric for today's song writing exercise. ...or maybe defiance ! ...or maybe joy and gratitude

Have a good day guys.

Lucis

[DesireInspires]

Honestly, I was not too fond of the singing on the track. The main vocal and the backing vocals sounded forced. The lyrics were not particularly memorable either. I don't know how you can improve. That is something you can work on.

For now, just try to pitch instrumental stuff.

[Russell Landwehr]

Hi Lucis.

The positive view of the screener's review is that you were stylistically on target. This means you are headed the right direction, just have a bit of a way to get there.

About production skills info... Here are some links to mixing info. (and a couple of books.)

Mike Senior has a book called "Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio" http://www.amazon.com/Mixing-Secrets-Sm ... +your+mind
The companion website for this book is http://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms-links.htm#freeware toward the bottom is a lot of reference info.
Mike Senior's website http://www.cambridge-mt.com/MikeSenior.htm has tons of info including a "Mix Rescue" section where he discusses fixing mixes and where he posts before and after examples.
The book "Guerrilla Home Recording" http://www.amazon.com/Guerrilla-Home-Re ... +recording could also be helpful.

Now I think the BEST "Production" learning tool you have already at your fingertips.... The TAXI Forums. And Specially Peer-To-Peer. I see you've only asked for feedback in peer-to-peer once back in January. I hope that didn't scare you away from using that part of this forum. If you are going to post in that section to learn production techniques then take what people say (the parts you agree with) and re-work your track and then post a new topic and the revised track and see if things are getting better. There are a TON of caring and knowledgeable folk here that will be supportive AND helpful. Also, you can pay attention to other people's postings in peer-to-peer, and learn things from the feedback on OTHER peoples' stuff. When you listen for the things on other peoples' tracks that their feedback points out, it really helps train the ear.

It's good to see that you are open to improvement and not statically willing to give in to entropy.

Regards,
Russell

[Russell Landwehr]

Honestly, I was not too fond of the singing on the track. The main vocal and the backing vocals sounded forced. The lyrics were not particularly memorable either. I don't know how you can improve. That is something you can work on.

For now, just try to pitch instrumental stuff.

Um... DI is often very economical with words. I hope he doesn't mind if I clarify. DI is mainly an instrumentalist who doesn't do Singer/Songwriter or Indy. So giving pointers on these things are something he is staying away from. But to his ears the vocal and lyrics need improvement.

As far as vocals and lyrics go, I'm not the right guy to give feedback on that either.

Russell

[Casey H]

I don't do my own production so I can't offer specifics on how to make something sound better, mix and production-wise.

However, I've read this suggestion from others before and I think it's an excellent one... Take your tracks to a local studio (either a pro one or find someone nearby with a good home studio setup) and have them re-mix while you observe and take notes. Let someone teach you some tips and tricks. You will most likely have to pay for a few hours of studio time (unless you find a generous Taxi member who lives near you and is willing as a favor), but the investment will be well worth it.

There are some good classes at the Taxi Road Rally as well.

Best of luck!
Casey

[DesireInspires]

Honestly, I was not too fond of the singing on the track. The main vocal and the backing vocals sounded forced. The lyrics were not particularly memorable either. I don't know how you can improve. That is something you can work on.

For now, just try to pitch instrumental stuff.

Um... DI is often very economical with words. I hope he doesn't mind if I clarify. DI is mainly an instrumentalist who doesn't do Singer/Songwriter or Indy. So giving pointers on these things are something he is staying away from. But to his ears the vocal and lyrics need improvement.

As far as vocals and lyrics go, I'm not the right guy to give feedback on that either.

Russell

Yes. Thanks!

[andygabrys]

I don't do my own production so I can't offer specifics on how to make something sound better, mix and production-wise.

However, I've read this suggestion from others before and I think it's an excellent one... Take your tracks to a local studio (either a pro one or find someone nearby with a good home studio setup) and have them re-mix while you observe and take notes. Let someone teach you some tips and tricks. You will most likely have to pay for a few hours of studio time (unless you find a generous Taxi member who lives near you and is willing as a favor), but the investment will be well worth it.

There are some good classes at the Taxi Road Rally as well.

Best of luck!
Casey

i'll go one further on this one:

if you can't find somebody locally who can do it - find somebody at distance who uses the same DAW that you do (Logic, Sonar, whatever). Have them mix the project IN THE BOX in the same DAW using only STOCK plugins, the ones that come with the DAW. There isn't a DAW out there right now that doesn't have enough firepower with STOCK plugins to make a good mix. Then have them send back the ENTIRE project with the mix in it. They could even make some videos of the mix process using Screenflow or other Video Capture software.

it will probably cost you $100 or more. but like Casey says, it would be well worth it.

I did that a few years ago and paid for a friend to mix one of my songs in Logic. I was stuck, didn't know how to get it to the next level (although I had already had my music licensed on TV at the time). He mixed in Logic with stock plugins, and sent the session back. I was floored how little he had to do to it and the mix sounded much clearer, less effected, and just plain better. he did a number of things that I still use as options. Its amazing what you can see.

failing that - and I have been flogging these three videos ad nauseum on this forum lately:

Fab Dupont from Puremix.net has some of the best videos I have ever seen for subtle processing that brings out the clarity and power in recordings. These three are cheaper than some of the others on the site, and don't require the monthly membership. You can just buy these videos by themselves, and they come with audio files that you can try the same stuff on to solidify the learning.

http://www.puremix.net/video/transparen ... ssion.html

http://www.puremix.net/video/how-to-eq-vocals.html

http://www.puremix.net/video/mixing-a-p ... -eyed.html

Fab mixes these in ProTools, using a variety of stock and third party plugins (but in most cases you can find replacements for most of the third party stuff) but what really strikes me is the subtle changes he makes and how they greatly effect the sound of the final mix. Like I said in other posts, I keep returning to these because he uses EQ and COMPRESSION in more subtle ways than some, and I believe he has a great way of explaining what he is trying to do (ref. the vocal compression where he talks about the vocal being solid in the phantom image between your two monitors in front of your face).

good luck!