Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

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beesea
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Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by beesea » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:58 pm

Just got a return for "Build a Bigger Fire" (available on my taxi page, if you want to listen) for this listing:
MALE and FEMALE, ACOUSTIC FOLK-LEANING SINGER/SONGWRITER SONGS in the stylistic wheelhouse of Joni Mitchell, Townes Van Zandt, Joan Baez, Nick Drake, etc., are needed by the Owner of a extraordinary Music Library with an incredible list of placements in TV shows, Films, Trailers, and commercials. He's looking for authentic performances that have tons of emotional pull. Songs must have engaging and believable vocal performances, solid musicianship, and a natural, organic-sounding production style.
the melody might not have enough differentiation, as the chorus isn't quite standing out enough. In other words the chorus melody is in a similar note range as the verses.
Fair enough, I did keep the note range pretty narrow on this one. I don't really hear a ton of range in a lot of Drake's or Van Zandt's tunes, but obviously there is TONS in Mitchell's and Baez's. So, point well taken here.
Also, you have a nice lyrical hook with "build a bigger fire." However, more of the verse lyrics could directly set-up or "point-to" this important lyrical hook.

Lyricists - I'd be interested in some advice/other opinions here. 'Smoke drifting away", "scars", "stop the shivering", are all mentioned in the first verse. By the time the chorus mentions "building a bigger fire", letting the listener know that the subject has been "burned before", talking about not being "cold and lonely", does the second verse and bridge really need even MORE "fire" references? After all, the chorus also lets the listener know what the bigger fire symbolizes - ("warm and happy home"), and much of the second verse & bridge deal with building the trust needed to get that place. In other words, trying to move past the problems of the past (or the fire) and not dwell on them in order to create a newer, better situation. Any ideas on how I could have accomplished that better, still tying everything into the hook?

Still learning this lyric writing craft, but I really want it to become a strong point for me; it is what I spend the bulk of my writing/studying time on these days. Really helps having people on here to get "first impressions" from, so big thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond.

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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by sguiles » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:02 pm

I'd be curious to know the number of your screener.

To me it seems a wee bit nit picky.
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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by beesea » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:58 pm

sguiles wrote:I'd be curious to know the number of your screener.

To me it seems a wee bit nit picky.
Screener 315. Had plenty of nice things to say as well, and the criticism was constructive, but yeah, seems a bit nitpicky to not forward this to me too...

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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by Casey H » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:03 am

Hi
Listening... Pretty song and nicely done. Love the title/lyric hook idea. :D Could you post the lyrics as well? Then folks can make comments on both the music and words. I'll be back when I can listen again while reading the words.

My first reaction is, as incredibly pretty as the song is, it does need better sectional contrast.

:D Casey

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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by beesea » Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:47 am

Thanks for listening, Steven & Casey! @ Casey: Sure, here are the lyrics:

Build a Bigger Fire

All the smoke's drifted away
But I can still see the pain - in your eyes
Carry such a heavy load
Your the only one who knows - what's inside
If the scars on your soul
Have started growing cold
Let me stop the shivering

CHORUS
We'll build a bigger fire
A warm and happy home
Until the day we die
Never cold or lonely again
I hope your heart will find comfort in these words
We'll build a bigger fire
Than the one that burned you before

Grab a hold of my hand
Leave those old worn out plans - far behind
Let's just draw something new
We've got nothing to lose
Except for wasted time

(repeat chorus)

If you ever need to stop and breathe
You best believe the time is yours
And if you ever need to fall on me
When you feel weak, you know for sure
You'll never hit the floor

(repeat chorus)

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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by sguiles » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:48 am

I like how this builds! The additional instruments and harmonies that come in in each new section are really well done.

I like it.

I like the subtle piano parts. The first time I heard the chorus I wasn't sold.
The SECOND time I got it. Great melody imho. Repetition made this sound better and better to me.
I'm wondering if they stopped listening after the first time through and didn't allow it to develop...

...which MIGHT mean it would be good to have MORE of that production happening in the very beginning, then strip it away to the basic level of guitar voice, just so the listener knows it's there and could reappear at any time. :)
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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by beesea » Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:57 am

sguiles wrote: ...which MIGHT mean it would be good to have MORE of that production happening in the very beginning, then strip it away to the basic level of guitar voice, just so the listener knows it's there and could reappear at any time. :)
Good point Steven - it does sound like a solo acoustic tune until the second verse, and even then the piano is pretty subtle. I'll try having the piano do something in the intro, then take it away at the verse. See where that leads me. Great idea, thanks!

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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by Casey H » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:08 am

Hi Beesa
Your performance and recording is beautiful. I personally think the lyrics are fine (lovely, actually). We can always tweak our words a bit. Could it benefit from more chorus tie in with the fire burning out in the verse? Maybe. But I wouldn't rush into that unless you get that feedback from additional qualified sources.

The big problem, as I see it, is the lack of sectional contrast in the chorus. The screener was right on the money there. The note range and the rhythmic phrasing is too similar to the verse. One test for differentiation: Can you easily sing the chorus words to the verse melody and vice-versa? How easy can one identify the chorus WITHOUT a lyric sheet that has the chorus labeled as such? I love what you did here. :D But when the chorus comes in, I'm not sure I'm not hearing another verse.

I would try some of the standard toolbox tools for improving differentiation here. Change up the rhythmic phrasing. Stretch some short notes into longer ones so they are very different from the verse. Try to make your chorus melody notes higher than the verse ones. Maybe some chord changes (though melody and rhythm matter more)...

Best,
:D Casey

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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by beesea » Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:38 am

Casey H wrote:
I would try some of the standard toolbox tools for improving differentiation here. Change up the rhythmic phrasing. Stretch some short notes into longer ones so they are very different from the verse. Try to make your chorus melody notes higher than the verse ones. Maybe some chord changes (though melody and rhythm matter more)...
Thanks for your comments Casey, much appreciated! Melody range-wise, I absolutely hear what you are saying; the chorus is in the same range as the verse. Also, note lengths are similar. I DID change the chorus chord progression, as well as having the chords switch twice as fast as the verse. The melody also starts after beat one, instead of the "pickup note" approach in the verses. So I'm thinking it must be note range & length that are causing the two sections to sound too similar... Glad you mentioned that though; good reminder how melody trumps chord changes on this kind of tune! Cheers, hope to see you at the rally!

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Re: Return for Singer-Songwriter tune S130906AS

Post by VTrails » Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:29 am

I got the same comment about the verse lyrics better "setting up" the chorus from the same screener for my submission "Better Day". Like you, it had me scratching my head a bit, it seemed a little bit like saying I should dumb it down a bit for the "average" listeners mentioned in the comment. There was also a song structure comment suggesting I add a chorus in between the second verse and the bridge, which is easy enough to try. Not sure whether or not I'm going to revise the lyrics. It's in for enough listing which is yes/no, but might provide further insight.

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