Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by Len911 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:13 am

Midi controller midi channel number

in Andy's video @~2:37 he is choosing his Akai controller, the default is "All"

The reason you are getting what you call "bleed" into the other midi channels, is because you have the midi controller input channel either set to "All" or whatever midi channel the keyboard controller is using. And because you haven't muted the channels, or made a temporary selected unused midi channel for the input of the tracks you don't want to record, you are routing all the midi data to those channels.

Normally you don't notice those channels being defaulted to "All" when for example you have midi tracks already recorded on them. But that's in play mode, not record.

Input midi channel number (controller)>>>>midi track (numbered)>>>> midi track(numbered) output>>>> input midi patch (numbered)>>>>>output audio of midi patch(numbered)>>>>>selected audio buss (numbered)>>>>and then to the stereo buss
(if previous selected audio buss wasn't the stereo buss)

It's mainly about keeping your midi's and audio's straight, and whether you are recording or playing. As things get a little more complex, you can think of it as a "patchbay approach".

Andy's Akai controller, I'm not at all familiar, but it appeared there were several choices or patches to choose from the midi input. That's much more complex than the simple default midi ch1 portable Yamaha keyboard contoller, almost a toy,lol, that I own.

Then with the Play, you are getting into multi-timbral instruments.

Patchbay.

I have to admit though, I am on the simple and lazy side, :shock: I would open Play and do one patch at a time,lol! I'd still only open one instance of Play, but change the patches. :oops:
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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by andygabrys » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:41 am

lesmac wrote:Ignore 2nd channel that says 3&4 out, should be mains.
Hope this works for you.
I guess Andy has been setting play up since well before Pro Tools had instrument tracks. Could probably do it with his eyes closed. I just hope I never lose my template, it's a pain otherwise.
yes Lester, I first started using protools when it didn't have instrument tracks and you had to have a midi track and an AUX with the VI instantiated on it. It was totally a pain, and using all instrument tracks as you have in your screen shot is a more elegant way to do it.

What remains is just to get it routed the right way so you get sound.

Len911 - Pro Tools by default doesn't "hear" anything from a controller keyboard unless the specific channel is record enabled. And while this Akai rig can be switched to transmit on any midi channel its much easier just to leave it transmitting on channel 1, and set the input of those midi tracks (or instrument tracks midi input) to either channel 1, or All. It doesn't matter.

So I am still guessing that is not where the bleed is coming from - setting the midi inputs to all.

maybe that's what you are saying anyways.

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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by Len911 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:55 am

Yes, that is what I was saying Andy, I should probably be quiet since I don't have either play or pro tools! ;)

My bad on the Akai, it looked like maybe it had outputs for keys and pads and other stuff separated,

It must be possible to record-enable all the tracks at once?? :?

I can't imagine there being a true "bleed" per se, as that's not possible in digital, only analog.

Nice video btw!
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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by andygabrys » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:36 pm

Yes, that is what I was saying Andy, I should probably be quiet since I don't have either play or pro tools! ;)
people appreciate the help Len. Keep on doing it.
My bad on the Akai, it looked like maybe it had outputs for keys and pads and other stuff separated,
yeah its just arranged by midi channel and you can play all the keys pads / sliders etc. all at one time.
It must be possible to record-enable all the tracks at once?? :?
No the only way that Pro Tools can do this (to my knowledge and experience) is when you have audio tracks with discrete inputs. I.e. - you have an 8 channel mic pre / interface and if they are set to record 8 tracks like Input 1, input 2 etc. then you can record enable a number at one time.

The MIDI thing has never been Pro Tools strong suit and maybe part of the inflexibility comes from it being added "after the fact"

Nice video btw!
Thanks - been working on this stuff. I am using Screenflow - its very well set up to record system audio (i.e. Pro Tools) and whatever is also entering the interface (i.e. a mic) without having to use an actual Pro Tools (or Logic or whatever) session.

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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by lesmac » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:18 pm

Quote:
It must be possible to record-enable all the tracks at once?? :?


No the only way that Pro Tools can do this (to my knowledge and experience) is when you have audio tracks with discrete inputs. I.e. - you have an 8 channel mic pre / interface and if they are set to record 8 tracks like Input 1, input 2 etc. then you can record enable a number at one time.

The MIDI thing has never been Pro Tools strong suit and maybe part of the inflexibility comes from it being added "after the fact"
I did a quick check yesterday and could record enable multiple channels in that template by shift-clicking the record button on each channel.

I'd try opening a new blank session and start the process over again.

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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by andygabrys » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:37 pm

lesmac wrote:
Quote:
It must be possible to record-enable all the tracks at once?? :?


No the only way that Pro Tools can do this (to my knowledge and experience) is when you have audio tracks with discrete inputs. I.e. - you have an 8 channel mic pre / interface and if they are set to record 8 tracks like Input 1, input 2 etc. then you can record enable a number at one time.

The MIDI thing has never been Pro Tools strong suit and maybe part of the inflexibility comes from it being added "after the fact"
I did a quick check yesterday and could record enable multiple channels in that template by shift-clicking the record button on each channel.

I'd try opening a new blank session and start the process over again.
a nice one! hadn't ever done it that way. had only grouped tracks and hit record on one of them. sweet tip Lester! Thanks!

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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by becw75 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:58 pm

OMG - we're up to a second page of posts!

Guys…. I've removed the 'bleed'.

… to sound like Maxwell Smart… 'would you believe….' - the answer was that I had other tracks with Play on them that I thought were inactive - I had 'hidden and made inactive'.
Apparently - they're not so inactive!

This is the first time that I have/ had set Play up using the methods discussed above.

Previously, I was putting a Play engine on every track.

This track with the problem, I was converting/ trying your methods.

This is what I did...

I stripped down the parts also, only focussing on the violin parts.
Some parts were duplicated, so,
Instead of deleting the tracks, I made them inactive & hid them.
I hid this with the viola, cell and bass parts also.

I got stuck, I posted about the bleed problem.

I did some more cleaning up, switched to smaller sections to make the piece 'lite'.
Then deleted tracks.
Started cleaning up the viola, cello & bass parts - by putting them through the second instance of Play.

Voila - no bleed.

I'd like to thanks everyone for their posts - Andy - really nice video BTW - good to hear a voice!
Thanks Les and Len - I'll refer back to your notes as I learn more Len.

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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by Len911 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:32 pm

:lol: Bwaaa!

No, I do not believe you hid some instances of Play with tracks on them, rofl!

I was thinking, now what could Rebecca have possibly done, never would have imagined,

Voila! or V-i-o-l-a :lol:

Lesson: Always start with a clean slate or project before trying something new?? :mrgreen:
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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by becw75 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:02 pm

Thanks Len!

As if you'd start with a clean slate??? ;)
Or read a manual before trying a product…

Sorry, but I wanted to keep the parts I made.
I did inactivate the tracks I didn't want to use.

(oh no you di'ent)
(oh yes I did)
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Re: Eastwest Play Engine - troubleshooting help please

Post by lesmac » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:27 pm

To quote David Byrne "Up the hill backwards, it'll be OK"

It's crazy stuff we do :D

I'm going to post a thread in recording and technology on a tip I found in a paid tutorial re how to create track presets in Pro Tools.
It will allow you to save your play template as a track preset and bring it into your session via the new track dialogue.
a nice one! hadn't ever done it that way. had only grouped tracks and hit record on one of them. sweet tip Lester! Thanks!
It was an accident Andy, hit enough keys and something might happen :D

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