Holy Sheep Schtick Batman!

[Sallier]

"...a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus structure..."

I can not stop flipping between laughing and being furious over this note I received. I haven't limited a song structure to that format since Junior High when I was simply rewriting lame pop songs.

The fact that Taxi "screeners" only forward tunes based on this format is not only ridiculously over simplified, it should be in a notice somewhere - like prior to taking our money for a membership. I'm just two months into being around here but this note on top of getting telemarketing calls from Taxi trying to sell me on spending three days by the airport has already left a bad impression.

S.

[Casey H]

"...a verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus structure..."

I can not stop flipping between laughing and being furious over this note I received. I haven't limited a song structure to that format since Junior High when I was simply rewriting lame pop songs.

The fact that Taxi "screeners" only forward tunes based on this format is not only ridiculously over simplified, it should be in a notice somewhere - like prior to taking our money for a membership. I'm just two months into being around here but this note on top of getting telemarketing calls from Taxi trying to sell me on spending three days by the airport has already left a bad impression.

S.

Hi Sallier
Taxi presents opportunities for PRESENT DAY COMMERCIAL success, meaning placements with artists or in film/TV. Reality is that's the structure that people in the industry want and this is really not about Taxi. You wouldn't get very far pitching songs without that structure (or similar) to publishers, Film/TV supervisors, etc. on your own either. Taxi listings represent what is commercially viable today.

Feel free to post a link to one of the songs that was returned along with lyrics if you want feedback from other songwriters.

And if Taxi's not for you, they offer a refund during the first year.

Best of luck
Casey

[mikemichnya]

Hey Sallier,

I second Casey's comment. The music industry is an extremely competitive business, and even if the artist was a one-hit wonder, those "lame pop songs" you were re-writing in junior high were on the radio. As a songwriter trying to get other people to use your material, you narrow your chances considerably if you don't write in a format that most people are both familiar with and conditioned to respond to. Speaking strictly as one of your many competitors for those limited opportunities, in a word, 'Thanks!'

But in the spirit of helping others (which I believe is everyone's true mission anyway ), I'll offer an explanation about WHY "people in the industry" (and Taxi screeners merely represent them) want songs in VCVCBC structures more often than other possible structures.

There are several common song structures. The main ones, ALL of which were THE dominant form in the heyday of their popularity, are:

VVVV (with a refrain at the beginning or end of each verse): not enough variety = boring
VVBV: adds the novelty the previous structure lacks, and just when we expect it, but without a chorus, there's not enough of the familiar, and it's harder to sing along to
VCVCVC (including variations with a double first verse, instrumental third verse, etc.): this gives us both novelty (to keep us interested) and familiarity (to sing along with), but by the third verse, our brain is ready for something different again...

Hence, the most popular song form today is... the VCVCBC structure. Why? Not because Taxi screeners, big media corporations, music industry execs or anyone else conspires to limit our artistic expression, that's for sure. It's how the human brain has EVOLVED over hundreds of thousands of years.

The simple fact is that the VCVCBC structure provides both the NOVELTY and the FAMILIARITY that our brains PREFER in just the right proportions, AND in the ORDER that we want them in (otherwise the ABACAB structure, in which A=chorus, B=verse and C=bridge, would have surpassed it by now ). According to recent estimates, this structure accounts for about 80% of current chart songs.

That doesn't mean that there isn't a niche for avante garde or otherwise creative song structures, but you either have to be a hugely successful performing artist (with fans who will buy whatever you produce), or so hugely talented that you captivate everyone who hears your songs to pull off a new form. So, if you have a following like the Beatles, sing like Joni Mitchell, play guitar like Eric Clapton, etc., etc. - go for it. Post yourself performing your original songs on youtube, build a following, go on tour, take the world by storm... I remember seeing a Norwegian band (Tempest) playing a hybrid style of Celtic and Norwegian folk-rock; not my cup of tea, but they've been performing for more than 25 years, so maybe you'll find your audience... It just isn't likely to be what the mainstream music industry is looking for NOW.

In the meantime, IF you want placements with artists, or in film and TV, your challenge is to write songs in the most popular form so much BETTER than all those other "lame pop songs" that the gate keepers stand up and take notice.

And if you get a review that you disagree with, post a link to the song AND the feedback you got from the screener. I can't guarantee that you'll learn anything from every rejection, but if you never light the candle, you're gonna be bumping around in the darkness for a looong time.

Hope this helps. Good luck whatever you decide!

[Sallier]

...PRESENT DAY COMMERCIAL... Casey

That's a damn good point sir, unless I want to start performing again (which I do not necessarily wish to do) then I need to find a way to resist submitting anything, possibly take your advice and exit all together. However I would challenge that (to use unnamed persons simplistic breakdown since reference is everything) verse, chorus, verse, chorus bridge/chorus and chorus, verse, chorus, verse bridge/chorus has had quite the success over the years and has been around since the first time a cowboy sat next to a campfire with a guitar.

Thank you for your input sir.

Peace.

S.

[Sallier]

It's how the human brain has EVOLVED over hundreds of thousands of years.

There's the meat of your reply right there sir, though I would argue devolution being the root cause; understood, going forth I will dumb anything down I decide to submit or just not submit it - again, possibly take the advice to split. One less competitor for you as you wish but just the same, I would also argue that anyone looking for others material to record is not an artist, and neither is anyone stuck in a cookie-cutter format rut.

Thanks for replying.

Peace

S.

[Casey H]

However I would challenge that (to use unnamed persons simplistic breakdown since reference is everything) verse, chorus, verse, chorus bridge/chorus and chorus, verse, chorus, verse bridge/chorus has had quite the success over the years and has been around since the first time a cowboy sat next to a campfire with a guitar.

Yup... That's because it works!!

Best,
Casey

[andygabrys]

Deleted

[Paulie]

If you are looking for a quick path to success this is not how Taxi works. I've been here since March, submitted nearly 75+ tracks, have some forwards, but no placements yet. This is a five year plan if you work at it the right way: follow the formulas, listen to the a la's in the listings, and "write, submit, forget and repeat" often.

If you want to promote your own music, you can certainly have success here because there are plenty of listings for new artists and a wide variety of genres. From what I've seen, the overwhelming majority of listings are very specific and as writers/composers it is our job to provide the customer what they want, not what we like. The same can be said for performing musicians. If you are playing a wedding, nobody wants to hear the kurt cobain version of "Over the Rainbow", or Coltrane's version of "What's New" In our industry success/survival depends on our ability to meet the customer's needs. Taxi's reputation is on the line with every track they forward to music supervisors, producers, librarians, et al. Do I agree with every screener? Not at all, but I do about 90% of the time. And I view every return and forward as a learning opportunity. The screeners can provide great feedback, but to me the best value Taxi has to offer is this forum, where friends and strangers willingly provide honest feedback to those willing to receive it. I've learned more in six months here about the music recording business than I did in four years at music school (albeit I was not a music engineering major).

So, brush off the return and think about whether or not you want to write music for money and placements, or for your own creative reasons. If you have any doubt about the tried and true intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus format, chart out some top charts in the genre you want to write in. You will find that many of them fall into one of the very common song formats.

Best of luck to you, think before acting. Never make decisions when you are still mad... at Taxi or in life. Find a friend to vent to, I've done that after a few returns that really ticked me off, and I'm happy I did.

[Sallier]

Really a bummer when some things are nailed down and the only creativity comes from the music and the lyrics

On wait - I've got stuff placed on TV like that too.

I guess it's not a bummer.

Is there a point to this reply?

[Sallier]

If you are looking for a quick path to success this is not how Taxi works. I've been here since March, submitted nearly 75+ tracks, have some forwards, but no placements yet. This is a five year plan if you work at it the right way: follow the formulas, listen to the a la's in the listings, and "write, submit, forget and repeat" often.

If you want to promote your own music, you can certainly have success here because there are plenty of listings for new artists and a wide variety of genres. From what I've seen, the overwhelming majority of listings are very specific and as writers/composers it is our job to provide the customer what they want, not what we like. The same can be said for performing musicians. If you are playing a wedding, nobody wants to hear the kurt cobain version of "Over the Rainbow", or Coltrane's version of "What's New" In our industry success/survival depends on our ability to meet the customer's needs. Taxi's reputation is on the line with every track they forward to music supervisors, producers, librarians, et al. Do I agree with every screener? Not at all, but I do about 90% of the time. And I view every return and forward as a learning opportunity. The screeners can provide great feedback, but to me the best value Taxi has to offer is this forum, where friends and strangers willingly provide honest feedback to those willing to receive it. I've learned more in six months here about the music recording business than I did in four years at music school (albeit I was not a music engineering major).

So, brush off the return and think about whether or not you want to write music for money and placements, or for your own creative reasons. If you have any doubt about the tried and true intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus format, chart out some top charts in the genre you want to write in. You will find that many of them fall into one of the very common song formats.

Best of luck to you, think before acting. Never make decisions when you are still mad... at Taxi or in life. Find a friend to vent to, I've done that after a few returns that really ticked me off, and I'm happy I did.

Good perspective.

Thanks for the reply.

Peace

S.