A newbie

[mikemartin]

Hey folks! I'm new here. Not sure if this is for me. Maybe someone can help. I play guitar and sing .. for many years now. Lately, I've taken to writing songs. I think I have some really hot songs, but I don't think my singing and playing will ever go far. That said, I understand that sound engineers can work wonders with a mediocre voice, if you have lots of money. That's not me. And I definitely cannot produce a quality recordings. So is there a market for songs, that someone else might record? .. and is this the place to showcase them? I have recordings, but they are produced with a two-dollar microphone and a forty-dollar laptop. Essentially, they are only for showing interested parties my perception of what the songs might sound like. I can provide samples is someone might like to comment. I believe the genre would be folk and country, if you play the songs my way.

At first, I wondered whether this would be a safe place to show precious material, but this chat idea certainly alleviates that concern. I like what I've read. Looking forward to hearing from someone.

[billhewett]

Hi Mike,

Welcome to the TAXI forum!

Through TAXI there isn't really a good avenue for submitting recordings that are that basic. Even when listings come up for "stripped down demos" they say that the production quality and performance needs to be excellent.

That said, there are definitely listings looking for pop and country hits for up and coming artists. It might be worth posting some of your rough demos on Soundcloud and linking to them here to see if any board members would be interested in co-writing and production. Since they would be co-writers they may be willing to do the recording/production with no up-front charge in the hope that they will earn royalties if/when the song gets picked up by an artist or placed in TV/Film.

You should check out the Industry Listings (http://www.taxi.com/industry.php), updated the 1st and 15th of every month. If you look for a couple of months then you will start to get a feel for whether or not your songs will fit with any listings.

Good luck going forward, however you decide to proceed!

-Bill

[mikemartin]

Thanks Bill. I gather from reading here at TAXI forum that soundcloud is a place to upload songs where the "whole wide world" can access them. I have my own website for that. Here's my favorite creation so far. http://mike-martin.net/Recordings/My%20 ... %20You.mp3

[DooWahDiddy]

Mike, this is a charming little number, but I'll be honest: I kept waiting for it to go somewhere. It's literally the same chords and melody six times in a row. I kept waiting for it to go to D7 so it could go to the 4th, but that never happened. In my opinion, you've got a good verse there. Play two of them, and then go to the chorus (which you haven't written yet). Then play one more verse and go back to the chorus. Cut three of the verses.

The recording quality is better than I expected from your description, though, so that might qualify as a "stripped down demo". Others will have to weigh in on that, as home recording is not my forte. Good luck with it!

[mikemartin]

Thanks DooWaa. Exactly what I'm looking for.

[mikemartin]

This one has a chorus. It is not a love song. True story about a disaster.
http://mike-martin.net/Recordings/My%20 ... 0Lucky.mp3

Thirteen Wasn't Lucky

[billhewett]

Hi Mike,

These both do sound pretty good... a little bit too much crackling/distortion on the second one, but I agree with DooWahDiddy that they are probably clear enough for a stripped down demo.

The second song also has more of a refrain than a chorus, which is a subtle but important difference... a refrain is a repeated part that sounds more like an extension or ending of the verse, while a chorus usually brings the whole song to a new place. In the past 20 or 30 years most songs tend to have choruses as opposed to refrains (at least in pop and rock... I'm not as familiar with country, but I know that most country hits these days have big choruses).

So the next logical question you need to ask is what kind of artists would you expect to pitch these songs to? I don't think anybody is really recording songs like this any more, so if you want to stick with songs like these then you would probably be better off trying to record them well and get them into TV or Film placements that are looking for older style songs... but that might be a really narrow market. Like I said, check out the industry listings page I linked to before and see if there are any calls for Traditional Country or Classic Country songs, and if there are then listen to the songs or artists that they list for references to see if your songs are a match.

If you are hoping to write a radio hit for a modern country artist then you need to see who is on top of the country charts and give their hit songs a listen to really figure out how they are structured. What are the tempos? How long are the intros? How many bars are the verses/choruses/bridges? Are there pre-chorus sections between the verses and choruses? How many verses/choruses/bridges do they have? What are the lyrics about? These are the kinds of things you need to be aware of if you want to write songs for other people to perform, even if you aren't looking to write radio hits.

Hope this helps!

-Bill

[mikemartin]

That is extremely considerate, especially since you're not into country. You must be popular around here. I can see you're into music and open minded. I too, like any kind of music. But I am not young and do prefer the country classics. Understandably, only time can produce those. I don't have a refined ear, and I don't hear the diff in those two recordings that you described. Hence I'm not into quality, studio-grade recording. It's all the same to me. But I can tell that you do have a fine ear, because that love song was recorded on my friend's PA, with him playing base, while the other one, I did by myself as multi-track on the computer, and I laid the base in afterward myself. You'll likely agree that I'm not a real base player and my friend is very much a base player.

So on one had, I'm flattered that you think my stuff is old style. I also appreciate your honesty, about how to proceed.

I must have a knack for something, since only took to witting a few months ago. I already have a about 150 poems/lyrics like that. I've only put music to a dozen or more so far.

As for a chorus, does it require a different progression. Most old classics don't ... off hand. (and many have no chorus, of course) Couldn't I take any one of those verses in that love song and make it a chorus. Is it the lyric or the chords that make it a chorus? Could I make my refrain into a chorus in the other song?

Not sure if you have time or inclination for all that. Thanks for all your help.

[billhewett]

Ha... I'm not sure if I'm "popular" around here... your timing is just good. I *usually* only appear on the boards when I need help from other members, but I decided to make an effort in 2016 to spend time here every week, and to try to give back to the board some of the help that has been given to me :)

Usually a chorus lifts the song up. That can be done in many ways... a change in chord progression, change in rhythm, change in volume/energy, or simply a different melody over the same progression. Looking at your site the two songs that jump out at me that have very obvious choruses are American Pie and Hotel California. They both have different chord progressions. But you can also look at something like "With Or Without You" by U2, where the progression doesn't change for the entire song, and the energy constantly builds, but the lines "With or without you, with or without you, I can't live with or without you" are always sung up higher than the verse, so they stand out as a chorus. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" by Nirvana also has the same chord progression for verses and choruses, but the energy amps up and the melody changes.

All that said, if you really want to advance your songwriting to the next level it's not going to happen here on the Taxi forums. Here are a few things you can do to get yourself a little further along:
1. Seek out other songwriters in your area and meet up to work on songs, share ideas, etc.
2. See if there is a songwriting class or workshop in your area
3. Find some books on songwriting. You will find a lot of people on the board (myself included) recommending books by Robin Frederick. click here to see her books at Amazon

I look forward to hearing where you've taken your songwriting to in another few months ;o)

-Bill