Hypothetical Situation With Exclusive Listings

[Russell Landwehr]

Hi Danny,

A "Forward" by Taxi simply means they've forwarded your song to someone at the library to listen to it. They will then determine weather it will get added to the library's catalog or not. Until you actually get a contract from the library, your song is a "free agent". You can shop it around anywhere you like (exclusive or non-exclusive).

I've had several situations where I've sent songs to an exclusive library and after not hearing back from them ( I usually wait about a month), I've placed it in another library. The exclusive libraries have then come back and asked me about the song. I've told them that it's already been licensed but I can offer them another similar track. Those situations have usually help me establish a new working relationship with the libraries.

I like to wait about three months after an exclusive forward before I shop it to my current Library contacts. One month in this business is a very short amount of time.

As far a pulling something from a library just to sign it to another library, I kinda feel like I am obligated to give a library the chance to shop my stuff and get it placed. Usually a contract will either specify "in perpetuity" or have a reversion clause. But I pretty much ignore that because I have no intent to pull anything I've signed. Of course I deal mostly in instrumental cues which I am prolific in creating. If I were less prolific and had less songs to shop, then perhaps I might watch over my "babies" a bit more carefully once I turn them over to a publisher. However, I think I would still be likely to continue trusting in the Publisher who has my songs. I have only one instance of regretting signing a song to a publisher. But I'm not obsessing about trying to get it back. I've moved on. The path ahead is where I'm going.

Russell

[guscave]

I like to wait about three months after an exclusive forward before I shop it to my current Library contacts. One month in this business is a very short amount of time.

You're absolutely right. One month is short, but I will usually try to contact the library once or twice to see if they've had a chance to listen to it. If I get a response, I'll definitely let sit for a longer period. But if I don't hear anything, I'll just move on. Like I said, I can always write something new for them if they come back.

[markjsmith]

No, if you only submit to a listing and haven't heard from the library the tune is still yours to assign publishing as you see fit. No cyber black hole. A listing is NOT an obligation to sign a contract with that particular company. The tune is yours until you sign something saying it isn't!

[VanderBoegh]

I totally get you and understand Taxi's process. It's that I personally don't see a "Deal" until money is in my hands

The confusion here is that some people on the forums consider it a "Deal" by merely signing songs in to a library. Nobody in this thread has said that but I have seen this quite often in forum chatter.

Hey Danny, if you're not counting something as a "deal" until you get money in your hands, then you'll be disappointed for quite a while. Personally, I've only ever been paid up-front three times for music, and I'm well into my 5th year doing library music. Almost all of my music income comes from ASCAP when they cut me a royalty check. The only problem is that it just takes so dang long to get paid back-end royalties (at least two full quarters, so anywhere from 6-9 months), and compound that by the time it takes for a library to land your music in a show in the first place, and you're talking the potential of a few years - or more - before you begin seeing that money in your hands. This isn't quite the same thing as a normal retail transaction where you get paid upfront for services or products, in fact, those upfront deals are incredibly rare in the modern structure of music libraries.

But you're right, I think all of us here on the Forums that have been at this a while would agree that something is considered a "deal" when you sign a contract with a library and they accept your music into their catalog.

[ComposerLDG]

Matt nailed it. Think of it as a very long pipeline. You have to pour a LOT of water into it before you start seeing any come out the other end.

[eeoo]

Any time you have to sign a contract it's a deal, kinda the definition, at least to me.

[Casey H]

I like to wait about three months after an exclusive forward before I shop it to my current Library contacts. One month in this business is a very short amount of time.

You're absolutely right. One month is short, but I will usually try to contact the library once or twice to see if they've had a chance to listen to it. If I get a response, I'll definitely let sit for a longer period. But if I don't hear anything, I'll just move on. Like I said, I can always write something new for them if they come back.

Hi Gus
Contacting a library that got your forward to see if they've had a chance to listen isn't very advisable. It can really annoy the heck out of them if they get a lot of those inquiries. The result can be they don't list with Taxi anymore, switch to blind listings (which none of us love), or write you off as an annoying composer.

Best
Casey

[Danny]

[/quote]

I totally get you and understand Taxi's process. It's that I personally don't see a "Deal" until money is in my hands

The confusion here is that some people on the forums consider it a "Deal" by merely signing songs in to a library. Nobody in this thread has said that but I have seen this quite often in forum chatter.

Hey Danny, if you're not counting something as a "deal" until you get money in your hands, then you'll be disappointed for quite a while. Personally, I've only ever been paid up-front three times for music, and I'm well into my 5th year doing library music. Almost all of my music income comes from ASCAP when they cut me a royalty check. The only problem is that it just takes so dang long to get paid back-end royalties (at least two full quarters, so anywhere from 6-9 months), and compound that by the time it takes for a library to land your music in a show in the first place, and you're talking the potential of a few years - or more - before you begin seeing that money in your hands. This isn't quite the same thing as a normal retail transaction where you get paid upfront for services or products, in fact, those upfront deals are incredibly rare in the modern structure of music libraries

But you're right, I think all of us here on the Forums that have been at this a while would agree that something is considered a "deal" when you sign a contract with a library and they accept your music into their catalog..

Thanks for the insight.

Perhaps there was a touch of sarcasm there about getting paid

I just think that many people are not aware that a song can be "Accepted" or "Forwarded" into a library and sit there for quite a while, if not indefinitely. I am not trying to cause negativity, but merely stating the facts.

I am not disappointed by any of my library placements but very grateful for them. I do not expect anything but just hope for future placements. In the meanwhile, just gotta get in the studio and keep it rockin

[guscave]

I like to wait about three months after an exclusive forward before I shop it to my current Library contacts. One month in this business is a very short amount of time.

You're absolutely right. One month is short, but I will usually try to contact the library once or twice to see if they've had a chance to listen to it. If I get a response, I'll definitely let sit for a longer period. But if I don't hear anything, I'll just move on. Like I said, I can always write something new for them if they come back.

Hi Gus
Contacting a library that got your forward to see if they've had a chance to listen isn't very advisable. It can really annoy the heck out of them if they get a lot of those inquiries. The result can be they don't list with Taxi anymore, switch to blind listings (which none of us love), or write you off as an annoying composer.

Best
Casey

Hi Casey,

I don't contact listings from Taxi, (unfortunately I'm not a member at the moment), I only contact those that I get on my own. These are usually folks that I've had some dealing with and I've gotten the ok to submit to them. I'll follow up maybe once or twice, then move on.

[ComposerLDG]

Thanks for the insight.

Perhaps there was a touch of sarcasm there about getting paid

I just think that many people are not aware that a song can be "Accepted" or "Forwarded" into a library and sit there for quite a while, if not indefinitely. I am not trying to cause negativity, but merely stating the facts.

I am not disappointed by any of my library placements but very grateful for them. I do not expect anything but just hope for future placements. In the meanwhile, just gotta get in the studio and keep it rockin

I'm still not following. A forward to a library obligates neither you nor the library to anything. It's simply a forward to them for consideration. Saying a song can be in a forwarded state indefinitely makes no sense to me, because a forward is just a forward and the song is still mine. If by "accepted," you mean a signing of the song by the library, then that is obviously different than a forward and should not be spoken of as the same thing. We've all experienced songs being forwarded and never hearing from the company they were forwarded to. As far as signing, the tracks I've signed are all in perpetuity, so I know that they're with the library for good.