Zero latency monitoring with effects

toddgill · Post by **toddgill** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:51 pm

Here's what I'm trying to do:

- Play electric guitar through real (not virtual) miked amps.
- Hear delay and possibly reverb in the monitor mix while I play, but I don't want to print those effects during tracking and I want to hear ZERO latency

My (older) MOTU interface has a great zero latency option which works great for tracking anything that needs monitoring. But it does not have effects available for the monitor mix. Looking for either a technique to accomplish this or a recommendation for an interface or other gear that can accomplish this.

NOTE: I realize there are zero latency guitar amp modelers like Avid Eleven, Line 6, etc. I'm considering getting Avid Eleven because if it really delivers a good sound, it could really streamline workflow. But I'm looking for options to get zero latency monitoring-plus-effects at the moment.

Thanks!

eeoo · Post by **eeoo** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:58 pm

Stomp boxes!

I've always preferred mic'ing my amp but I've been using my Eleven rack more and more, especially when I'm just working by myself in my home studio, it's just so convenient and it sounds good with a little tweaking. By the time I set up my amp and pedal board and set up a mic I could have already recorded a track or two with the Eleven rack. Lazy? Yeah, probably. Convenient and time saving? absolutely. It's not for every situation but it works for me most of the time.

guscave · Post by **guscave** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:28 am

I recently bought this great 60 watt Orange combo amp for my live gigs and decided to use it for recording as well. I mic it up, put my effects pedal in and tweaked everything as much as I could to get just the right sound. I ran it through my Presonus Audio interface which has zero latency. I started recording and everything was coming along great, when right in the middle of the song, my dog decided to start barking!!

I must have spent an hour trying to get a good, clean recording. The next day I had to lay down some over-dubs and I just did them straight through the interface with Guitar Rig 5. To be honest once all the other tracks were playing, I couldn't tell much of a difference. Especially in the quality.

I suppose if you have the time and room to record guitars straight through an amp it would be best, but my time is limited and I have to get as much done on one session as I can.

Russell Landwehr · Post by **Russell Landwehr** » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:50 pm

toddgill wrote: - Hear delay and possibly reverb in the monitor mix while I play, but I don't want to print those effects during tracking and I want to hear ZERO latency

Route your Monitor signal through an outboard analog reverb and delay unit.

mojobone · Post by **mojobone** » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:35 pm

OR, you could use most any old Line6 POD you have lying around; most of them will let you record a dry signal along with the effected one via USB; the tricky part is getting the mic signal into the POD, though some, like the X3Live have an XLR input suitable for dynamic mics. (though no phantom power) Maybe the most elegant solution is this: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MixingLink It has an astoundingly good onboard mic preamp and allows you to (among many, many other things) interface your DAW with your stompboxes. It's also great for re-amping or running vocals through your guitar chain.

Personally, I don't worry so much about FX latency when it comes to reverbs/delays; if I'm gonna synchronize a delay, I'll probably be printing it, and latency with reverb is basically just a little pre-delay that'll actually let me hear the dry signal a bit better. It'd be a bigger problem for filter modulation, but again, with a wah pedal or some such, I'd just print it as it goes down. Antelope's Orion Studio and UAD's Apollo interfaces do this out of the box, but it's a rather large investment, either way. Probably the cheapest way to do it is with a small format outboard mixer. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProFX4v2

toddgill · Post by **toddgill** » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:09 pm

All,

Thanks for the input. I'm definitely leaning towards the Eleven as I mentioned, but these other suggestions are solid. I especially like the idea of routing the monitor output signal to physical effects units (duh!) Thanks Russell. I need to remember everything doesn't need to be in the box in here 2016...

I know the amp emulator plugins I already have sound quite good if tweaked, but the (ever so slight) delay while tracking drives me nuts and affects my performance.

The idea of splitting the signal (recording direct signal from guitar while also monitoring a live amp and effects) is also appealing since it would provide zero latency and let me tweak the sound incessantly with plug-ins, regardless of amp settings during tracking. I could also record both the miked amp and the clean direct signal, which could be useful for layering.

Good stuff, guys. Thanks!

andygabrys · Post by **andygabrys** » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:18 am

Depending on your computer setup - UA Apollo would seem to tick all the boxes and still be useful for recording other things besides guitar.

Danny · Post by **Danny** » Sun Apr 10, 2016 8:19 pm

Todd,

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding

If you want to print a guitar without effects but hear them while playing, why don't you just play dry through the amp and use an Aux send on your DAW for the effects? Any semi modern interface with ASIO drivers, could eat 2 or 3 effects up for breakfast without latency. Your miced amp will be printed dry and you are using the sends on a temp basis to hear the effects while playing.

I love my POD XT Pro but there is no substitute for that "Air" you get when micing a live amp.

mojobone · Post by **mojobone** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:56 pm

Danny wrote: I love my POD XT Pro but there is no substitute for that "Air" you get when micing a live amp.

Actually, the POD X3L has a knob for that; you just increase the virtual mic distance to get it. It's an idealized virtual room, and a bit bland, but it works, getting a sense of air/space without sounding like reverb. Still you might be missing a little touch response, which they fixed in the latest generation. The Helix is a bit on the pricey side at $1499 USD, though.

Here's another thought; you could grab one of these http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EB6180 place it before your pedals and record to your DAW from the tuner output. A passive ABY box could do the same thing a little cheaper, but you'd still need a step-down transformer/impedance converter when you send your dry signal back to the amp. The advantage here is you can tweak the amp's controls to perfection at mixdown, whilst listening to a nearly complete mix.

andygabrys · Post by **andygabrys** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:03 pm

Danny wrote:......there is no substitute for that "Air" you get when mixing a live amp......

Just about every Amp sim has some kind of cabinet modeling where you can place the mic in space and also pull it away from the cabinet. Amplitube, TH2, GTR3, GuitarRig etc.

If its too subtle, you can compress after the amp sim and you will bring up the relative level of that ambience and it can be pretty easily heard if you want.

If the track is super sparse, then go for, mic that amp. Maybe somebody will notice. If the track is busier though, I am not sure if people are going to notice as much. That depends more on your mixing skill

Zero latency monitoring with effects

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