Zero latency monitoring with effects

[andygabrys]

All,

Thanks for the input. I'm definitely leaning towards the Eleven as I mentioned, but these other suggestions are solid. I especially like the idea of routing the monitor output signal to physical effects units (duh!) Thanks Russell. I need to remember everything doesn't need to be in the box in here 2016...

I know the amp emulator plugins I already have sound quite good if tweaked, but the (ever so slight) delay while tracking drives me nuts and affects my performance.

The idea of splitting the signal (recording direct signal from guitar while also monitoring a live amp and effects) is also appealing since it would provide zero latency and let me tweak the sound incessantly with plug-ins, regardless of amp settings during tracking. I could also record both the miked amp and the clean direct signal, which could be useful for layering.

Good stuff, guys. Thanks!

What is you setup at current Todd?

Pro Tools? Logic? what kind of computer? What kind of interface.

I have to admit that using Pro Tools 12, or Logic X and utilizing a few tricks that are resident in the software, I don't have much of a problem recording guitar using amp sims. You might be overlooking something simple.

[Danny]

Andy and Mojo,

Yeah. I gotta admit. The newer sims are pretttry darn convincing .

There are some purists that will have our heads . I do have some slamming Metal tracks with that XT Pro..

[mojobone]

Speaking as an ahem, former tube purist, I can empathize. It also took me quite a while to adapt to latencies, as an electric drummer; having a background in guitar helped, there, cuz I used to use a long cable to play out in the crowd occasionally, and it's the same thing. If you have a strong sense of rhythm, you can adapt and overcome, as they say in the military. (as long as the latency stays consistent, you can just play a little ahead of the beat) The thing that helped free me from decades of magical thinking re tubes was the eventual realization that Stevie Ray was playing through a hybrid rig throughout his career; he didn't have a tube wah pedal, and his TS808 had an op-amp in it. OTOH, I still use a tube amp to monitor my guitars on stage, but the house gets a direct feed from the modeler.

[Danny]

I Hear ya Mojo.

I have both digital and acoustics sets. Being a drummer as my primary instrument really helped me with guitar and especially the bass.

Are the latencies you are referering to DAWS exclusively?

[mojobone]

I Hear ya Mojo.

I have both digital and acoustics sets. Being a drummer as my primary instrument really helped me with guitar and especially the bass.

Are the latencies you are referering to DAWS exclusively?

Yeah, I meant DAWs, but if you use a wireless rig, the latency is about a millisecond per foot between you and the sound source.

[toddgill]

What is you setup at current Todd?

Pro Tools? Logic? what kind of computer? What kind of interface.

I have to admit that using Pro Tools 12, or Logic X and utilizing a few tricks that are resident in the software, I don't have much of a problem recording guitar using amp sims. You might be overlooking something simple.

Andy, the hardware I'm using is pretty old but it seems to run most software I'm using pretty well:
ProTools 12, MOTU 828mkII, old 2008 Mac Pro (if it ain't broke...) I also sometimes work with Ableton Live.

I just tried out an Eleven plugin in PT 12 with a 64 sample buffer size and there was no noticeable latency. Then I tried again with a PT session that had a full band and lots of plugins running. I added a new track with Eleven. I had to bump it up to 128 samples to avoid crashing, but it worked! The latency of playing through Eleven live at 128 samples was also not noticeable.

The last time I tried an amp sim plugin (I don't remember the exact setup, but it was the same hardware) I believe what happened was that the DAW could not handle running the plugin (Amplitube 2 maybe?) and more than one or two other tracks/effects at the same time, which made it unusable for tracking guitar as a mix grows. Maybe PT 12 and Eleven are just way more efficient? This question prompted me take another look with the new software. Thanks!

I'm glad to hear that many of you are using amp sim plugins with success. The sound from these things is definitely getting better and you can't beat the workflow.

[andygabrys]

ProTools 12, MOTU 828mkII, old 2008 Mac Pro (if it ain't broke...) I also sometimes work with Ableton Live.

Pro Tools was extensively retooled when PT 11 came out, and it turned from something tailor made to make you buy HD hardware, to something that runs pretty well on a regular computer. They redid the input and output buffers too.

I just tried out an Eleven plugin in PT 12 with a 64 sample buffer size and there was no noticeable latency. Then I tried again with a PT session that had a full band and lots of plugins running. I added a new track with Eleven. I had to bump it up to 128 samples to avoid crashing, but it worked! The latency of playing through Eleven live at 128 samples was also not noticeable.

and in PT 12 you could also freeze all the rest of the tracks, record your guitar part at 64 samples and then unfreeze and continue. PT 12 is way more flexible because of all the bounce, commit, and freeze options. On my Mac pro stuff freezes and un-freezes in a heartbeat.

The last time I tried an amp sim plugin (I don't remember the exact setup, but it was the same hardware) I believe what happened was that the DAW could not handle running the plugin (Amplitube 2 maybe?) and more than one or two other tracks/effects at the same time, which made it unusable for tracking guitar as a mix grows. Maybe PT 12 and Eleven are just way more efficient? This question prompted me take another look with the new software. Thanks!

I don't think the eleven software is actually that big of a deal beyond any other plugin right now.

You mentioned Amplitube, and it was extensively retooled as well with Amplitube 3 came out which I think was their first 64 bit version as well. Lots of those older plugins running in 32 bit mode were unbearable resource hogs. Same thing with Virtual Drums.

glad to hear its all working for you.