Help with a return, please - TENSION-Based ELECTRONIC U/S

[MattCurious]

Hi guys

I'm normally pretty good at understanding specific feedback but these two have boggled me a bit. I've reached out to Taxi for some help, too; but you can't have too many ears.

“In the Cloud” (https://soundcloud.com/matt_curious/in-the-cloud) got returned because: “This cue could stand to sound a bit more contemporary in the string pad area. Sounds more like it would be on a soap opera than a contemporary reality show or film.”

What I'm struggling with is that In the Cloud got forwarded (http://forums.taxi.com/topic134791.html) on a listing with a bunch of contemporary, and one overlapping, references. There also aren't any string pads in the tune (although I've assumed the screener is talking about the pad that comes in on the second section and hangs around into the third).

I think I know what may have happened but I don't want to influence your thinking.

On “A Dark Intelligence” (https://soundcloud.com/matt_curious/a-dark-intelligence), the feedback was: “Would liked to have heard more of a ramp-up of tension throughout the piece, this one has more of a drone-like one-chord effect throughout.”

I get the bit about needing more of a ramp up.

What I’m struggling with here is that the references (to my ears anyway) are mostly drones - particularly Still Gone, which was a heavy influence here. But even if that's not right, my second section (around 1:16) changes up both musically and dynamically. I'm wondering if the screener is using "drone" to describe something else? Or is it just to emphasise the ramp bit?

TENSION-Based ELECTRONIC UNDERSCORE CUES are needed for Non-Exclusive deals by a Music Supervisor-owned Production Music Library with tons of placements in Film, TV, and Commercial Advertising. The Supervisor/library owner is well-known, super well-connected, and he’s been working on top Reality TV Shows (and more) for at least a decade! He’s got a very long history with TAXI, and has been responsible for tons of TAXI member placements. He’s got some time off between shows, so he’s running Listings to beef up his own library’s catalog. Give them find Down-to-Mid-Tempo Underscore Cues that you’d hear in TV shows and films like Drive, Contagion, The Lazarus Effect, Gone Girl, etc., etc., etc. Please listen to the following references to get in the stylistic wheelhouse of what they’re looking for: “Kick Your Teeth” (Drive) by Cliff Martinez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5BkvuTJEDo “They’re Calling My Flight” (Contagion) by Cliff Martinez: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBY7FnkNI4c “Amygdala” (The Lazarus Effect) by Sarah Schachner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QHYMaWZFbA “Still Gone” (Gone Girl) Trent Reznor/Atticus Ross: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjUCEKeYNX0 Quoting the Music Supervisor: “Cues should have a beginning, middle, and end section, with a sting style conclusion. Cues should be minimally arranged with not a lot of instrumentation. Tension type Cues to be used under dialogue where there is an underlying tension, drama, or suspense to a scene.” Please give them pulsing Underscore cues that use fresh, current sounding electronic elements to convey a tense and suspenseful vibe. Your Cues can be sparse, somewhat minimal, while maintaining forward momentum with various percussive instruments and modern sounding synth pads. Some orchestral or acoustic instrumentation can work for this pitch (like a piano part!), but they’re not absolutely necessary. Build your Cue around a central theme that delivers nail-biting, uneasy suspense, while adding and subtracting layers of instrumentation to create dynamics and forward momentum as the Cue progresses. As always, please avoid submitting anything that’s overly frenetic or obviously dated sounding or stiff and MIDI-driven. Your submissions should be about 1:10 to 2:00 minutes in length, with easy edit points and Buttoned/Stinger endings. Do NOT copy or rip off the referenced composers or music in any way, shape, or form. Use them only as a guide for tempo, texture, tone, and vibe. Broadcast Quality is needed (Great sounding home recordings are fine). They offer a NON-EXCLUSIVE deal. You’ll split any syncs fee 50/50. You’ll retain 100% of the Master rights, and the Library will get 100% of the Publishing for any placements they generate. You’ll get 100% of the writer’s share. You must own your Master and Copyright in order to submit for this opportunity. All music will be screened on a Yes/No basis by the Supervisor himself (subject to his availability). Please submit 1-3 Instrumental Cues by no later than 11:59PM (PDT), on Sunday, April 3rd, 2016. TAXI #U160403EU

Forgive the various edits. I tend to be on the forum as I work through my first coffee :-/

All help welcome - thanks, guys.
Matt

[DavidSJH]

Hi Matt,

I'll jump in.

Hope this helps and if others concur or disagree with what I think here it would be helpful to me to read those replies.

I really like all the musical and melodic ideas you have in those two cues. They are great really.

You have got about three or four tension cues living within those two.
To me it feels like they are in limbo between what could be ( with more development ) a Hybrid Orchestral and a ( taking away elements ) tension cue.

A lot of what the screener said is easily changeable. And you have all the elements of a great cue or cues.

Hiis /her "dated" comments.

Is that a guitar delay a'la the Edge in the first cue? Yes, I would agree with the screener, that pad sound is dated. ( I hear early 80's )
Was that a Rhodes piano I hear in there at 28 secs ?


Into is cool though even with the edgy sound/feel and I like that kick/bass combo that comes in at 13 sec.
There is a lot of layers kicking in at 38 secs. This may be too busy under dialogue or for the scene. In a way it sounds like something you may find at the end of an episode.
Try taking away some things at that point and mixing that pad sound ( using eq and fx etc ) into the background. Also take the melodic motif of the pad and give it more space.
What I mean is leaving 2 bars or so between each repetition of that motif.
When it drops down into the piano at 1:03 though that's great.. Take out the pads. Leave the bass and swooshing perc there.
As you are a minute away from the end think about a music editor looking for an edit point. It is a good place to leave plenty of room to build into your buttoned ending.

Cue 2

Lots of great ideas in this one too.

Piano idea @ 38 secs is very tension building.
As per my previous comment, experiment with leaving more space for it and perhaps bring it in later near the end like you have it there.

Yes the "drone" the screener is talking about is apparent and would make it difficult for a music editor to cut if they only wanted to use 20 or 30 secs of it.

If I can make an analogy, Think of a creaking door sound in a horror flick. It is only there for a moment. The creaking does not last more than a sec then its gone.
Imagine if it went on for two minutes. It would kind of lose its effectiveness as an element to build the tension on.

Keep on writing Matt.

[MattCurious]

Hi David, thanks for the thoughts.

The first cue was originally for a listing that had Mr Robot as a reference and it nods towards some 80s videogame sounds, but there aren't any guitars or Rhodes in there - just as there aren't any string pads.

What I'm sensing from your feedback and the screener's is that the vibe was right for the listing where it got forwarded (even no-one can quite put their finger on why!) but that I hadn't zeroed in properly on the references for the new listing.

The second cue is meant to be a drone, as several of the references were drones or drone-like - that's why I don't understand it being "drone-like" as a reason for knocking it back. The alternative is that the screener is saying it's dynamically flat, but the second section is on a different level to my ears.

I think the screener is trying to emphasise that there needs to be a bigger ramp in tension (so the "drone-like" comment is really just reinforcement of the "ramp" comment).

[billprice]

Don't be too disappointed, these sound really close to me.

In the Cloud
It's not actually a pad but the string sound that comes in around 0:38 does sound a bit cheesey especially compared to the amazing string sounds in the references.

A Dark Intelligence
The trouble with your drone part is that it is killing the forward momentum. It just kind of "there" like a dun cloud... it should be more like gathering storm cloud.

Keep up the good efforts!

[MattCurious]

Thanks, guys - this is really helpful to me - and fascinating!

In the Cloud genuinely doesn't have any strings, string pads or anything intended to be string-like.

What is the "string" sound doing? The time reference is helping, thanks - but quite a lot changes around 0:38.

Some of the sounds do have a deliberately kitsch quality to them (which is where I think I went wrong in using a track from another listing), but I'm curious to see if we're talking about the same thing.

I'm also interested to see if people calling out the "strings" are talking about the same thing!

On "A Dark Intelligence" - I'm not sure the issue is the drone per se, but what is happening around it. My take on this is that there needs to be more variation in the pulses and percussion in order to create a bigger ramp in tension; whereas the references use the drone as a backing, I've made it more of a feature. Not intentionally, but there's not enough variation above it to distract from it.

[billprice]

I was mentioning the 4 note motif D-Bflat-A-G that comes in with a string or organ kind of sound around 0:38. It does sound kitchy and it's my bet that is what they were complaining about. Based on the references, they definitely don't want ironic/kitchy, they want fresh modern and dangerous sounding. So I would purge your tracks of anything that you think sounds kitchy.

On "Dark Intelligence" you're right, forward momentum is a product of the sum of the parts, not any one part. Any way you can find to improve the feeling of building suspense will probably fix the track. But I would be wary of cluttering up the track because they did say "minimally arranged with not a lot of instrumentation". There is more let up and sonic variation in the drones in the references. This may be the way to avoid the drone becoming too prominent. Hope this helps!

[MattCurious]

That's great thanks, Bill - some food for thought on A Dark Intelligence.

On In the Cloud - a good reminder to focus more on the specific references than the wording of the listing.