Soundcloud Freelancing Question

[NaeDae]

I'm thinking of starting a smalltime freelance hook-writing business on soundcloud.

My plan is to build a portfolio of 3 or 4 solid songs, then to start offering my hook-writing as a service; targetting rappers mainly.

My price I'm considering charging is $200 per song.

Is this a good plan? Should I consider changing it? Any general advice, guys?

[NoizeeBhoy]

I've always been intrigued by this charging for writing song selling model. Are you selling all rights for $200 - i.e. if a rapper picks it up and it tops the billboard you get zilch other than saying 'I wrote that song'?

[NaeDae]

I've always been intrigued by this charging for writing song selling model. Are you selling all rights for $200 - i.e. if a rapper picks it up and it tops the billboard you get zilch other than saying 'I wrote that song'?

Exactly my point; honestly, none of that's very likely on soundcloud without them promoting it, but I do want more than zilch. Maybe I should include 50% royalties on any sales of the song. I don't know how I'd track that, though.

Tbh idk if I'd really care unless it literally made hundreds of thousands.

Do you have a better model? I'm just brainstorming.

[eeoo]

Just speaking as someone who's done a lot of collaborating both as a writer and a producer, I'll either work for an upfront fee in which case I sign a work for hire contract and have no rights to the song subsequently, or I work for a percentage of the writer's share, usually an even split so if there are 2 writers it's 50/50. I've never gotten both upfront money and a writer's share and I wouldn't hire someone who wanted both unless it was, say, Paul McCartney.

My 2c that might only be worth 1c...

EO

[NaeDae]

Just speaking as someone who's done a lot of collaborating both as a writer and a producer, I'll either work for an upfront fee in which case I sign a work for hire contract and have no rights to the song subsequently, or I work for a percentage of the writer's share, usually an even split so if there are 2 writers it's 50/50. I've never gotten both upfront money and a writer's share and I wouldn't hire someone who wanted both unless it was, say, Paul McCartney.

My 2c that might only be worth 1c...

EO

Thanks. So what's a reasonable upfront? This is on soundcloud..

And the other thing is, people on soundcloud hardly make money off their music in the first place, so a split would basically mean I'm not making money.. And I'd imagine people in that area wouldn't bother spending $500 on a hook; since, y'know, they aren't making money half the time.

[Len911]

Just speaking as someone who's done a lot of collaborating both as a writer and a producer, I'll either work for an upfront fee in which case I sign a work for hire contract and have no rights to the song subsequently, or I work for a percentage of the writer's share, usually an even split so if there are 2 writers it's 50/50. I've never gotten both upfront money and a writer's share and I wouldn't hire someone who wanted both unless it was, say, Paul McCartney.

My 2c that might only be worth 1c...

EO

Thanks. So what's a reasonable upfront? This is on soundcloud..

And the other thing is, people on soundcloud hardly make money off their music in the first place, so a split would basically mean I'm not making money.. And I'd imagine people in that area wouldn't bother spending $500 on a hook; since, y'know, they aren't making money half the time.

+EO.

There is no reasonable upfront, because you are trying to create a new model. If you charge $500 and get plenty of work, that is reasonable, unless you get a lot of unsatisfied customers and they bad mouth you. If you make the model, it's up to you to test it, and convince people how great your model is. The bottom line is, what are the benefits over the models already in place? If you don't already have a reputation, like for example, Jason Blume, I don't know how you would ever get off the ground.

[NaeDae]

Just speaking as someone who's done a lot of collaborating both as a writer and a producer, I'll either work for an upfront fee in which case I sign a work for hire contract and have no rights to the song subsequently, or I work for a percentage of the writer's share, usually an even split so if there are 2 writers it's 50/50. I've never gotten both upfront money and a writer's share and I wouldn't hire someone who wanted both unless it was, say, Paul McCartney.

My 2c that might only be worth 1c...

EO

Thanks. So what's a reasonable upfront? This is on soundcloud..

And the other thing is, people on soundcloud hardly make money off their music in the first place, so a split would basically mean I'm not making money.. And I'd imagine people in that area wouldn't bother spending $500 on a hook; since, y'know, they aren't making money half the time.

+EO.

There is no reasonable upfront, because you are trying to create a new model. If you charge $500 and get plenty of work, that is reasonable, unless you get a lot of unsatisfied customers and they bad mouth you. If you make the model, it's up to you to test it, and convince people how great your model is. The bottom line is, what are the benefits over the models already in place? If you don't already have a reputation, like for example, Jason Blume, I don't know how you would ever get off the ground.

Ok that's a good point. I'm curious what other models exist for this. All I've seen are "beat shops" where it's all automated, or "Custom hooks if you send me an instrumental" for one-time fee (and this was just one guy, who had a really popular song).

[eeoo]

You could start by finding colleagues to collaborate with. I'm sure there are people on this forum who would love to have top lines written for their instrumental songs/beats etc. Maybe they're willing to pay you upfront and maybe they'd rather share writer's percentage with you but it's a way of getting the ball rolling. Collaboration tends to open up doors you didn't know existed.

[NaeDae]

You could start by finding colleagues to collaborate with. I'm sure there are people on this forum who would love to have top lines written for their instrumental songs/beats etc. Maybe they're willing to pay you upfront and maybe they'd rather share writer's percentage with you but it's a way of getting the ball rolling. Collaboration tends to open up doors you didn't know existed.

Makes sense. Are there any existing models around for what I'm trying to do?

[VanderBoegh]

Hey man, I personally don't know of anyone who offers a service like this, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there already doing it. As with most ideas, by the time you think of it, there are already a hundred people ahead of you who have beaten you to the punch. Doesn't mean they are any good though, and certainly doesn't mean they are acting on the idea at all.

My suspicion though is that $200-$500 may price you out of customers. I don't know how the whole "beat licensing" thing works, as I've never done it (and really have no desire to), but judging from experience it seems like most rappers are notoriously short on cash... Now, that's a huge - major - stereotype, and definitely doesn't apply to some of the super-talented Taxi rappers that are regulars on this forum, but by and large it seems like most rappers who rely on beat-makers to create mp3's that they purchase small licenses for are not rolling in the dough. Whereas the guys who are doing well financially and are pursuing music as a career have other people they already collaborate with who do all of this stuff together as a 50/50 split on ownership of the song (from the music bed, to lyrics, to performance, to production, to hooks, to hiring singers, etc.), and most likely wouldn't need a service like what you might offer.

You may want to ask a few guys like Terrell Burt and Owen Chaim if they think their circle of musician friends would be willing to pay that amount for a hook, just to see if it's worth pursuing. But I think the whole concept is worth a shot though. Really, the only way to gauge if the market can handle a particular price is to offer your product / service at a specific price-point and see if anyone takes the bait. If not, then either you're priced too high, or people aren't interested in the service, or you haven't marketed to the right people.

Good luck. I'd be interested to hear updates if you go through with this.

~~Matt