What's The Purpose Of Life

[jonathanm]

Feb 12, 2009, 9:10pm, sgs4u wrote:I avoid what I see as dogma. I avoid religions.OK, I get what you're saying. And I think I might agree with you on that.I hope you also understand my point: we all make statements declaring what we understand as truth, but have no hard evidence to back it up. Call them statements of faith. We have to make such statements because we can't know everything. But hopefully these statements are an extrapolation of known fact, i.e. such-and-such is known to be true, and it points to this other thing I can't prove.I think it's very important, then, for us to ask ourselves why we believe something. Such examined faith either gets stronger or is modified, adjusted to account for known truth. We still won't be able to account for everything (because, again we can't know and explain it all). But as we get closer to truth, the faith gets firmer and becomes grounded in it.Feb 12, 2009, 10:47pm, squids wrote:I really hope we're not all confusin' religion with spirituality.Great point. To me, religion is man's attempt to reach God. It becomes stiff, dry, dispassionate and often cruel. I have no interest in that. Personally, I'm trying to remain solely in Christ's teachings with no man-made stuff added. Sometimes, though, I find myself wanting to add my own man-made stuff into His words. Dang me. That's why I'm trying to constantly go over them and ask Him to reveal truth to me. I don't want my spin or anyone else's mixed in, because, as stated in an earlier post, I tend to want to slant things to my advantage. Dang me again! Feb 13, 2009, 4:20am, pitterpatter wrote:Some people seem to be the living embodiment of evil.Yep, it's in all of us to some level. I think that's what Christ was talking about when He said that out of the heart is where evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, immorality, thefts, lies and slanders come, and those are the things that make us unclean. The evil thought is the problem, and I'm stuffed full of them. On my best day of trying to think clean, positive, nice thoughts, I still get in the double digits of evil ones. I try not to beat myself up over it; we all do it. But it's cold comfort for me to say we're all guilty.I'm in need of mercy, badly. Fortunately, as Christ said, He came to give His life as "a ransom for many."Feb 12, 2009, 9:04pm, allends wrote:I am impressed by how smoothly we have shared our differing views so far. We sure have a great bunch of people here! Hear! Hear! You guys are great. Really quite amazing. And we thought they might shut down this thread to prevent riots.

[mojobone]

Quote: dogma="a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof." (per Princeton online).Doesn't quite align with my understanding of the term. (nor Steve's, apparently) Nearly all religious doctrine is proclaimed without proof, but there's a difference between proof and evidence. Evidence of God's love and existence is all around us, but if you require proof.....well, a lot of folks have been looking for that for a mighty long time.Without a direct experience of the divine-in other words a religious experience, a person may have faith, but in my opinion they do not have religion, and while they may adhere to their principles as strictly as they please, unless those principles are informed by something greater than mere words on a page, they are dogma, which I would define as religious doctrine received and accepted without understanding.

[jonathanm]

Yep, I understand what you're talking about, then, as dogma. I also agree, as stated above, that we're not going to have proof, thus the need for faith, but faith grounded in some fact.You're absolutely right that the faith, even that grounded in fact, needs to go beyond just words on a page to an encounter. For example, true faith in Christ is based on a track record of fact, but it goes beyond that to a personal encounter with Him, and surrendering one's life to Him. It's a person-to-Person relationship.You hit the nail on the head.

[squids]

Here's the problem with asking for personal truths.........as in the original question. In psych, if someone is talking about their own truth, it cannot be wrong because it's their truth, based on a variety of variables. It can change over time, exposure to mo information, etc and that's fine too. Learning is not only essential to a well-lived life but it's healthy, and changing our minds with the input of new data rather than refusing to let go of a previously held belief can cause some major conflict within ourselves (something that, being Buddhist, is not a good thing). I think we can reach conclusions on most superficial truths (not the meaning of life ones, lol) and be willing to change our minds pretty easily. The mo deeply held they are though, the mo difficult this becomes. Hence whackjobs like Jim Jones, David Koresh, etc (although let's face it, they were borderline personality cases too) could get their cultists to maintain the crap they dished out, to the degree they did. There're some truths though that can be maintained throughout someone's life. For instance, the buddhist way is to understand a thing. So it's possible to go full circle and come right back around again to the same conclusion you drew the first time only this time with a deeper understanding. NOT Jim Jones (full of crap as we all know) but intelligent, thoughtful discourse with ourselves and our environment.So, in essence, those who answered the original post and participated fully were perhaps trying to find new truths they could assimilate into their deeply held beliefs (since this isn't a superficial question), keeping up an interest in their surroundings while not being fearful of challenging their previously held ideas. I applaud that. Jes well done, I think. The refusal of everyone to turn this into conflict is something I find very encouraging. Like I said befo on another post, a cowriter and I have very different religions, political affiliations, etc but we overcome those simply by workin on the things we can do together, not by focusing on our differences. And in that process, we influence each other in a way. He's much mo intense than I am and I find that an equitable balance fo my mo laid back way of handlin things (he's much betta at marketing than I am, fo instance). We discuss lots of subjects and while previously stated, I'm a Buddhist and I believe he's Christian, the differences have added to our work while increasing our understanding of each other. BUT we take time to communicate freely without criticism and I think that's key. That worked out really well in this thread too.Jes wanted to say, in a very long way (sorry!!), that I appreciated this question and the responses and cordial behavior. We don't know who our next cowriter could be here so learning new things about those we interact with can be a very beneficial thing to us all.

[stephen]

I'm proud of us as well folks seem to think that once the name Jesus or some religious concept that opposes the other is expressed there must be an argument or war and that's so wrong. However Squids somethings you said I agree with and some I don't. How can truth change? if it changes then it wasn't the truth in the first place. A truth stands the test of time doesn't need our opinion to validate it. Is human blood red? the answer to that question hasn't change at all. The human brain is in the head that hasn't changed either. Some might argue that a truth and a fact are the same, but, facts can change. There are principles/laws that govern the universe. The law of gravity what goes up must come down, the law of sowing and reaping, if you plant corn you'll reap corn if you sow, hate you get hate and so on, . In order to rise above those laws you need a higher to over power them thus the law of aerodynamics causes planes to fly, the law of favor can cause you to experience plenty when you didn't sow or sowed little. Now that's a truth that has been around from the dawn of time hasn't changed. A truth will and can never change our perception of it will and can or opinion of it will and can but the truth will not. That's why I stated earlier if we are looking for purpose we need to seek the one who created. Humans cannot create life we are only conduits of it. Now you might say scientist can do this and that. But yet still they are only using and manipulating laws and principles that already exist. They cannot crate the laws and principles that give life. Husband and wife cannot create life they are just a medium through which life comes. Here's another law the law opposites attract, for fertilization to take place you need a male and a female, magnets show us this the same repels. just some thought find the maker of life to find it's purpose. BTW knowing the laws and principle don't give life.

[devin]

Great discussion gang.Perhaps our common ground is:- we're all on our own path- we're secure enough in where we are that we can ask others about their journey in a respectful wayAs divergent (and similar) as we are throughout this thread, we are a subset of society though...this discussion would have a higher conflict level (I'm guessing) if we took 20 random people and thrust this question on them. As a forum group, we're all used to learning from each other (and getting our best efforts returned - pun), so we've figured out how to manage different views.

[squids]

Feb 13, 2009, 10:37am, stephen wrote:However Squids somethings you said I agree with and some I don't. How can truth change? Because what we're discussing here is personal truth, not facts (like human blood is red......well, how red is it? Is it redder fo you than it is fo me?), truth can change.And, this is simply an observation from a female perspective, heck yes we can create life. I oughta know, I have two children. so we can state facts and, while they don't change, our perceptions of them and how we assimilate them and what we conclude about them absolutely does change and that's truth too.

[jonathanm]

Feb 13, 2009, 10:43am, devin wrote:Perhaps our common ground is:- we're all on our own path- we're secure enough in where we are that we can ask others about their journey in a respectful wayWell put, Dev. Obviously at some point this thread will cease, but I hope it's because it can no longer contain the conversation. No doubt this will turn into various smaller conversations through PMs, etc., or discussions at the rally around a table or sofa. Feb 13, 2009, 11:03am, squids wrote:Because what we're discussing here is personal truth, not facts (like human blood is red......well, how red is it? Is it redder fo you than it is fo me?), truth can change.Well, you bring up a good distinction, squids. I call that perception, or understanding, which can certainly change. In my posts, I'll separate that idea from non-changing absolute Truth by capitalizing it, just to be clear.There is Truth out there, and we spur each other on to find it and shed some of our misconceptions along the way. While this probably won't be my last post on the thread, I just want to take this opportunity to say thanks to everyone for what you've put into the discussion so far.Jonathan

[byllsong]

The real purpose of life is to keep it going.

[squids]

Good point, Jonathon! Both about the gratitude (me too!) and the distinction.