My latest beef.... WAIT! There's more.

[squids]

Good point. Some got it. Some don't. Etta got it in the pipes. Bouncy apparently got it too. Elsewhere.The doctor is in.

[billg]

"It's not about age; She, and many others of her ilk, had something that was priceless & immeasurable."Yup. And I'm going to go back to the money issue (sorry) but I think that has a lot to do with it. There was a time when an artist could "break" based on talent or based on a great song alone but those days are gone.It's to the point now that the music we hear (on the radio) is paid for. it's been like this for a long time. There are still forms of legal payola (maybe eventually satellite will offset this). And if anyone is banking on "the long tail" theory as it involves music and the internet (basically that more new artists will have a chance to earn some $$$$ thrrough net exposure) well, the folks that came up with that have already decided they were wrong. Their study trying to prove this instead showed that 80%-85% of all of the online dough was still being made by the same few artists . . . the same ones that are "promoted" on the radio. Unfortunately it looks as though (at least so far) the internet hasn't been a huge money maker for independent musicians. So, most of the money comes from the sale of "radio" artists. Radio airplay has nothing to do with the music, it's only a promotions tool to generate money.I produced a music video show from '90-'97. At it's peak it aired in 4 markets on broadcast tv . . . ABC, CBS, NBC, and WB. In '94 it was nominated for a Billboard award (Best Independently Produced Music Programming or something like that). Not hornblowing here, just trying to set the stage for what I'm going to say . . . I made my money from the record labels. The Billboard "computer crunch" for numbers placed a pretty high value on video spins on a major tv network (broadcast tv). Of course just paying me to play something would have not been legal, so instead of a direct payment I would get ad buys, offers of work to create CD release spots, and tons and tons of (mostly worthless) crap . . . 'swag". (I even have a pair of boxer shorts with a band logo!). I could always tell the groups that were going to get major radio airplay by the amount of "trade value" I was offered in conjunction with video spins within a certain ad date. Oh, it was very covert . . . "I can do this for you . . . I've got an ad buy coming up for group A and I can pay you ____$$. By the way, we really need group B on the playlist for the week of Feb. 15th."I'm not trying to sound like a hard-ass who is just out to bust someone's bubble but you need to understand it is about money first, that's just the way it is. That's not to say that if something really sucks you can buy your way into huge sales (although maybe that has happened) but if you're good and have a great song and if someone has the dough behind you you have a real shot.And you can get lucky and be a small chunk of the HUGE pie that represents the 15-20% of the "others". Last year I earned about $400 from an old album sales of a band I was in because the group is referenced through searches on Pandora. I aslo earned a few hundred in digital downloads. There are so many artists who make up the "others" that I feel Like I was really fortunate to have earned $700.As it relates to this thread, you can decide for youself if there's a possibility that a system like this has the potential "shut out" some very talented people.BTW: My video show finally went under because I programmed ONLY what I liked. It got to the point where there was only a very few of these artists (the one's that I liked) that had money attached.I'm gonna add something here to this already waaaay to long post (sorry) -I know things are a lot different now that they were in '97 . . . especially with all of the online music resources. But, the point is that the basic numbers really haven't changed. IMO though there has to be a shift on the "other category", in other words what the internet has done to to divide the 20% differently. For example, without the web my $700 probably would have gone into the pockets of an artist getting college radio airply.This is a pretty long-winded posts just to say that somehow it's still about the money, this has been an ever evolving truth and it has to have an effect the music we're exposed to.there's actually a book called "The Dirty Little Secrets Of The Music Business: Why The Music We Hear Sucks"http://books.google.com/books?id=VnbB62 ... ry%27these are excepts pertaining to "the long tail" as it applies to music. Like i said though, it's been debunked for online music (although, understandably there are those who sell indie music downloads online who still support it)

[diogenes]

Thanks very much Wade. I have a lot of respect for you and your music. (not just saying that either). Your reply here does make alot of sense, and I have to say I do agree with you (I tried to do the quote thingy with it but I'm retarded with computers). My original post wasn't a reaction to your original post, just more of a general comment on a lot of the post's to follow yours. Anyhow, hope all is well. I'm gonna read the rest of this now and see if there is anything else I can chime in on...I have to say, after reading on down I do have a mild change of heart with my original post, although I still agree with my original sentiment.

[anne]

I have to say that I still agree with Dax's original post though, and I was glad to read it. Anyone who has "broken" - whether we think they deserve it, earned it, or have any talent at all - has had to work their butt off to stay there. Yes, having a daddy with a lot of money can get you exposure, but you do have to sell enough product to stay there. And, when your talking about the music business, it comes down to what you can sell. Not that I particularly like that, because my inner punk singer will never become a star, but it is the world we have to work in.Maybe all the soul in Etta's and Aretha's voices came from the lives they lived and the efforts it took to just getting to the spot they were in when they recorded their incredible music. Maybe you all answered this already - either way, its just my 2 cents.

[heinsite]

damn wade--that's EXACTLY when i woke up from my doze too--and i thought stevie was as great as always, but when my 17 year old white skinny 6'3" tennis player (i have a baseball player and an actress too, so it's all balanced out and cool...) said "the Jonas Brothers?" and "Stevie Wonder?" and he knows i dig stevie, and he said what i wanted to hear--"man, that looks real weird..." indeed, it did...but the little boys were cute, pimples and all...and though no music training either, he said "that's a good song" and i said, well of course, stevie wrote it, you know how famous he is, right? he says yeah, and "how old is he" and i guessed (don't know) about 60 or could be 65...and he says "he's good." good boy, now finish your f-ing homework!the best,wh

[heinsite]

oh, the one thing that i was thinking while my waking hours of the grammy's was just that--how much hard work it takes, and comparing allot of our work (whoever you may be), what kept running through my mind was one word...BREAK! someone, somewhere believed in "whoever" we're talking about, ESPECIALLY the mediocre ones (sorry, just how i see it...) to give them a BREAK. done.wh

[diogenes]

Feb 9, 2009, 7:57am, heinsite wrote:oh, the one thing that i was thinking while my waking hours of the grammy's was just that--how much hard work it takes, and comparing allot of our work (whoever you may be), what kept running through my mind was one word...BREAK! someone, somewhere believed in "whoever" we're talking about, ESPECIALLY the mediocre ones (sorry, just how i see it...) to give them a BREAK. done.whI think it goes without saying they got a "break", but even after you get a break you still gotta roll the dice, there is no guarantee even with a record deal. But, after you get there, you've gotta have some shred of talent or you won't stay there for long. My only real point, was that those fortunate enough to have "made it" aren't there because they have no talent, regardless of how attractive they may be. 9 times out of 10 they probably worked very hard for everything they have, and I agree that the determining factor that pushed them over the edge was catching break, but just because you got a break doesn't mean your some no-talent hack, unworthy of your success.And of course they're are exceptions to every rule, and sometimes the truly mediocre some how manage to get on top and stay there, but I don't think that happens very often. There is a big difference between "I don 't like this" and "This Sucks". Most of the time what we mean is "I don't like this", which means some one else probably loves it.My six year daughter was singing along to Kanye West this morning on the way to school, I don't care for him but she does. Is she wrong? Am I right? It doesn't matter. There is no right or wrong. It's what you like.

[mojobone]

We're not in as bad a shape as it looks. Sure the movies got it wrong, they always get it wrong; movie people always think it's about the story and not the music. Can't really blame 'em, they're built that way. So Beyonce was maybe a bad choice to play Etta, know who coulda done it? Queen Latifah. Maybe she had a prior commitment to play a cab driver in a sequel.

[squids]

I coulda believed the Queen doin it but again we're hittin another cultural snag; she's gettin too old in the eyes of Hollywood. Honestly, Latifah's opps in the movie business were so limited when she herself was comin' up.....imho, when she was doin "Mama" in Chicago (the movie), I woulda bought anythin that girl wanted ta sell me. She woulda smoked in Cadillac but it's too late now. Hollywood has chosen/spoken/paid for/promoted it and this is where it is.Makes a person wonder why anyone would be interested in the entertainment industry, the politics alone can cause an aneurism.

[billg]

I never meant to sound like I don't think people who made it had to work their asses off to be a success . . . heck, in this business you have to work your ass off even to be a failure! I was just saying that roughly 80% of the people who we hear on the radio (acts that have a shot at success) are there because there was a monetary push to get them there, and in some instances a monetary push to keep them there. The talented ones ride the push to success. Not all of the artists that receive a big money push make it (in fact most don't). maybe because they lack the talent who knows. But if you think it's not about money and that the majority of artists make it based on talent alone you're in for a big disappointment.Of course there are always exceptions and that's what keeps a lot of folks going.