Ear help... How does this reflect in you Subs?

[cassmcentee]

Two days ago I noticed that I had my Subwoofer only catching the signal from my Stereo Left
That means I've spent a year mixing in an improper setup... (been in my new studio for a year now)
I have been reading and studying everything Steinberg (Cubase 8.5 pro/UR28M interface) to rectify the problem without affecting projects that are in the works
As an intermediate fix I'm running two Subs L/R
Been switching back and forth between my KRK 8's and KRK 5's to hear any added colorations with the extra sub
Here is a quick Sub Test mix using the KRK 5's for monitors and 2 Subwoofers L/R: https://soundcloud.com/robert-cass-mcen ... -3/s-bJlyH (private)
If you can spare 55 seconds, I would like to know how this is sounding in your Subwoofer!?!
Any help is appreciated!
Thank You,
Cass

[lesmac]

Hey Cass, don't really know what to say except that it had my single sub working. When the bass synth comes in about half way through there is some cancellation with the kick. Quite a lot of the harmonics came through on the little five inch speaker so well done there.

You don't think you are sweating it too much as bass is pretty uni directional. I suppose if your end user is theatre its probably important. I know you do like to dwell in those low frequencies a bit.

Nice test track.

[cassmcentee]

Hey Les!
Here is why I'm sweating it...
I use a lot of panning, and as a tune gets closer to the finished product I'm still tweaking EQ's
So that means that for the last year any instrument on the right was Eq'ed in heavier LowZs because I wasn't hearing the Sub supporting those sounds
It would sound correct in the studio, but I've been hearing this common thread of muddiness in other devices (phone/earbuds) with this years mixes
I only realized this was happening when I started an EDM cue (now called SubTest ) using two kicks, one panned left and one right.
I started with the exact same kick on both tracks and noticed that they didn't sound alike at all
The left was nice and beefy and the right was weak (I do love those LOWs )
That's when I freaked out and got really bummed out that I had somehow not noticed the problem
Worried about the amount of tunes that this affected...
My workaround for the moment is the two subs running
Thank you for letting me rant Les!
Greatly appreciated!

[lesmac]

Gotcha! Bummer!

Ive read where mixers talk about height and panning left and right. I guess with a 2.1 system [my setup] one might not have the same precision as someone using a broader range monitoring arrangement.

Hope you can sort out an easy fix for all your mixes.

[andygabrys]

No sub here cass but on my regular 8" monitors this sounds pretty sub-y and a little dark FWIW.

I would look at the sub region and look to take some of it off. Its especially noticeable in the kick rolls.

[cassmcentee]

Thank you Andy!
That helps!
I should be able to ramp up the volume on the subs some till I hear it as you are hearing it and go forward from there

[cosmicdolphin]

Sorry I don't have a sub either let alone stereo subs ! I always felt they created more problems than they solved in a home studio but YMMV depending on the size of your space I guess. But I spent a lot of time , effort and measuring and tweaking to get the low end as flat as possible in my 10ft x 10ft room and that's with only 6.5" Woofers.

Your mix seems to translate okay across my three speakers... Adam A7s , Avantone Mixcube and Boombox..it's on the heavier side but I think it's fine. Like Lesmac said low frequencies are non-directional - I think it's supposed to be somewhere around 80hz and below where our brain can't localize it so there shouldn't really be any real need to be panning anything lower.

From my experience mixes tend to sound clearer if you make the bottom end more mono and if it's going on vinyl it may be necessary for the ME to do that to stop the needle jumping out of the groove.

Mark

[Len911]

what are you mixing for? 2.1 and 5.1 surround use a single subwoofer. the receiver probably uses a crossover filter and mid (left plus right side)mono. having stereo subwoofers would probably be closer to what you might hear on club speakers with their larger woofers. As you mentioned before, you might have more distortion on smaller speakers with the lower freqs more to the sides.
brainworx has a plugin bx control V2 that allows you to monitor and adjust the mid/side channels, plus check the phase and widen or narrow the stereo field. you can also set a threshold for bass freq. for example anything below 80hz goes to the mid channel.

[cassmcentee]

Sorry I don't have a sub either let alone stereo subs ! I always felt they created more problems than they solved in a home studio but YMMV depending on the size of your space I guess. But I spent a lot of time , effort and measuring and tweaking to get the low end as flat as possible in my 10ft x 10ft room and that's with only 6.5" Woofers.

Your mix seems to translate okay across my three speakers... Adam A7s , Avantone Mixcube and Boombox..it's on the heavier side but I think it's fine. Like Lesmac said low frequencies are non-directional - I think it's supposed to be somewhere around 80hz and below where our brain can't localize it so there shouldn't really be any real need to be panning anything lower.

From my experience mixes tend to sound clearer if you make the bottom end more mono and if it's going on vinyl it may be necessary for the ME to do that to stop the needle jumping out of the groove.

Mark

Copy that Mark, I most likely have used them to cause more trouble than neccesary...
Room is 22' x 24'

[cassmcentee]

what are you mixing for? 2.1 and 5.1 surround use a single subwoofer. the receiver probably uses a crossover filter and mid (left plus right side)mono. having stereo subwoofers would probably be closer to what you might hear on club speakers with their larger woofers. As you mentioned before, you might have more distortion on smaller speakers with the lower freqs more to the sides.
brainworx has a plugin bx control V2 that allows you to monitor and adjust the mid/side channels, plus check the phase and widen or narrow the stereo field. you can also set a threshold for bass freq. for example anything below 80hz goes to the mid channel.

Hey Len!
I agree, the bx V2 is a great tool, haven't touched it for a while though...
The UR28M interface has 6 outs setup as 3 banks of L/R (output 1/2/3) that can be level linked or independent
All of the outs can be manipulated for other uses such as in my 5.1 mixes
When I mix in 5.1 the sub is used for the Lfe channel routed to #2 L and Center speaker routed to #2 R
So the way I have it hooked up now for Stereo mixing, #1 L/R is feeding my 8" monitors, #2 L/R feeding the Subs, #3 the 5"s
I now have them set to independent so I can switch back and forth or run them simultaneously
The conundrum has been how to setup a Stereo summed Mono mix through #2 L to the one Subwoofer withought adding another bus and or without being an Lfe channel
Since all of the recordings for the past 12 months were mixed with the monitoring imbalance, to correct, I would have to add new busses to each one if I was going to go that route...
thus the quick fix of two subs one Left and one Right
Steinberg doesn't have any walkthroughs for this kind of setup as far as I can find
Which leads me to Mark's thoughts of "just leave the sub out and stay out of trouble"
I'll spend the next week mixing in the 8"s/no sub
maybe bring the subs up to do quick bottom end checks and them shut them down again?
As Always, Thank You For Your Time!
Cass