Questions re: Payment / PRO's ?

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erinb52
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Re: Questions re: Payment / PRO's ?

Post by erinb52 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:35 pm

WOW. Thanks so much for all of the input and help! I really appreciate everyone chiming in. Cheers all :)
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Re: Questions re: Payment / PRO's ?

Post by jaywilliams » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:18 am

erinb52 thanks for starting this thread, I'm sure there are many of us searching for these answers!

I just got my BMI number so I feel like thats progress of a sort even though it was as easy as filling out a form online and waiting a couple of days :D

after reading through this thread I will hold off on registering tracks to BMI until they are signed/licensed

have a great day folks!
see you at the top!

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Re: Questions re: Payment / PRO's ?

Post by markhimley » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:53 pm

jaywilliams wrote:..I just got my BMI number..
Let me save you a mistake that I, and many others, have made! :lol:

Your BMI account number is NOT your IPI number. Both are 9 digits long. It's confusing at first.

When you sign with a library they will ask for your IPI number - which is the number they use to register the piece of music so you will get your writer's share and it will show up in your catalog. Do not give them your account number. I learned this one the hard way as did many others haha.

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Re: Questions re: Payment / PRO's ?

Post by markhimley » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:09 pm

erinb52 wrote:Newbie here... so I'd like to start by apologizing for asking a question that likely, has been answered on a forum somewhere, but I dare ask again :

> Do you register every song through a PRO? Is it necessary for exclusive deals that pay upfront? Does that happen? Which PRO's do you use? I'm registered with SOCAN only at the moment, and need to have a PRO in the states too.

>How does payment for a song work if you were to land a deal? I.e, if a taxi opp reads,
'non-exclusive licensing fee for a folk song, pays up to $1500,'
and you were to be chosen - do you get paid that in a lump sum? Or do you get paid through royalties up to a certain amount? I'm obviously super green - and do not know!

Thanks in advance. I've been enjoying taxi so far!

Erin
Some of this has been covered, some has not. So forgive me if some of this is repeat, but here's some of my two cents.

First of all - welcome :) You've made a giant step forward by joining the Taxi community. SO much to learn here. Make sure you take advantage of not only the forums, but Taxi TV as well. Lots of great archived episodes with SO much great info. I've learned 99% of what I know about this industry through the forums, Taxi TV, and Taxi community overall - and of course the Road Rally!! So many wonderful and generous people in this community.

You do not need to register every song you write through a PRO (yet). Eventually though, yes they will need to be registered. That is how you receive royalties. That's a very simple, condensed answer to a longer explanation to which others have touched on. Your goal starting out is going to be to get deals with libraries. THEY will register the songs at that point. It is unlikely that you will get a direct-to-supervisor deal at this point in your career (which is the most common situation in which you would register your own songs, although there are other situations as well and it could very well happen).

Even if your music is killer - they likely won't even consider the deal if they know how little you know about the industry and standard-of-practice stuff. They need to know that you know how the business works and that there will be no legal problems. I don't mean that at all in a negative way - those kinds of deals are just sort of the best ones out there and they generally only come for those who know how to properly navigate them and understand all the business stuff. If a music supervisor is taking music from you directly - there will likely be some sort of vetting process - they need to know that you know the ins and outs of how things work to cover their own butts.

That also depends on your plan of attack and whether you want to sign your stuff exclusively or non-exclusively, or both. It looks like you do mostly songs after taking a quick look at your soundcloud. If you want to only sign your songs non-exclusively then of course feel free to register them yourself. When you sign those songs with a non-exclusive library, they will register them again with a new title. Many non-exclusive libraries will just add a "code" to the beginning of the title to differentiate the title when registering it. For example if the library was "ABC Music" and you were signing your song "Regal Fur" - they might register it as "ABC20192 Regal Fur" so that it shows up separately in your catalog and so it would be identifiable and easy to tell that they were the publisher if/when the song was placed. However if you want to keep the option of signing your material exclusively - it CANNOT be previously registered. The library will register it for you.

No it is not necessary for exclusive deals to pay upfront. And to be clear - upfront fees from exclusive libraries are separate from PRO payments. PROs will pay you your quarterly performance royalties, upfront fees would come directly from the library. Some exclusive libraries pay upfront, some do not. In my experience - most do not. Ideally, yes you would like to get some money upfront for tracks that you are signing over exclusively, but those libraries are *usually* ones that you get into after you've worked your way up. Also - you should think longterm. Just because you're not getting upfront money doesn't mean it's a bad deal. I write for one exclusive library in particular that doesn't pay me anything upfront but they land me placements every single week. They are making me lots of money on the backend (which would be the quarterly royalties from my PRO).

I have no experience with foreign PROs but there are some great comments addressing that.

I personally have never landed a sync fee. But that's what that is. If a listing says "Pays up to $___" that is the sync fee which is separate from royalties. That's money you make upfront for the license of the song. However, I've heard from many people that sync fees aren't always "upfront" - that meaning, they can take a long time to come in.

Hopefully that helps!

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Re: Questions re: Payment / PRO's ?

Post by andygabrys » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:33 pm

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:58 am
hummingbird wrote:Not if you belong to SOCAN. If there is no assigned publishing, you get it all.
Cool if you're a Canuck
yay Canada!

BMI does the same.

However - there are often issues if you co-write something with someone from a different PRO - like if I co-write something with an ASCAP writer (and I am with BMI). The "excess writers clearance" that BMI uses to pay me all the royalties (writer and publisher) when I am the sole writer breaks down in the case that ASCAP and BMI have to collectively figure out who owns what. You don't want to have to go back and straighten things out so you get paid correctly. Get it right in the beginning.

There isn't a free lunch in music licensing - sooner or later you are going to have to register your own publishing company if you are submitting direct to supervisors or to ad agencies where you stand to earn both writers and publishers royalties. With BMI the cheapest publishing company you can get is a sole proprietor for $150 US. Its different amounts for ASCAP and for other types of entities (i.e. like an LLC).

You will find hundreds of examples of this question on these forums, and its TRUE, for 90% of the members on this forum who work almost entirely with libraries who take the entire publishers share, that you can get away with never having a publishing company. Whether or not you co-write - the library is the publisher in this case and it always works out.

Its a different case if you are in the position to receive writers and publishers royalties. Its worthwhile to go ahead and get your own publishing company set up.

Also - this article that TAXI published can answer a lot of questions that people commonly have.

https://www.taxi.com/transmitter/1504/k ... lingo.html

Note that on a worldwide basis, performing rights organizations work together. If you get a piece played on Australian television, and a cue sheet is submitted to APRA - they will deduct a nominal amount for administration and eventually the lions share of your money will arrive at SOCAN and you will be paid. It might take 12 months or more for the placement to be recognized and the money paid, sent to Canada and then you paid - in fact with international placements its not unusual that it will take 2 years. Domestic on the other hand is usually 6-9 months. Which for the original poster (OP - Erin) that means a placement on Canadian television. If your music is placed on US TV, then thats still an international case and it will take longer to get your $$$.

Good luck!

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