Thinking about a new reverb... recs?

[Ted]

You're probably correct that I should stop using plugins while recording. I think it's gonna be a period of adjustment to get used to not hearing anything on my voice when I'm recording it. Hearing a voice-- especially your own-- completely bone dry can be unsettling. But I think I may be reacting to the way my voice sounds with the effects on when monitoring and it's causing me to change the way I sing to compensate.

I've never been able to get good vocal recordings-- but I always just chalked it up to "My voice sucks"-- and there are definite sand traps and bunkers in my overall vocal character. But I think it's 50% recording techniques and 50% voice training. And I love singing. This year, with the lockdown is maybe the first time I've gone without singing much.

My other big issue-- I suspect-- is figuring out the best ratio of input gain on my condenser mic and the distance from my mouth to the mic. I think this has been a problem area for me. Maybe some proximity effect or something. I'm always afraid of having the gain too low so I err on the side of having the mic pretty hot. I'm used to decent technique with a Shure style dynamic mic, but singing into a condenser is weird to me.

I took voice lessons before. My teacher helped me work through some bad habits that I did while singing. They still come back, but at least I'm aware of them now. I think if I can improve 25% of my recording skills and 25% of my technique, I'll be 100% better singer. That adds up right? haha.

Yeah. it's a nice perk having those vocal rooms-- I just have to get the nerve to go use them. I moved to this apartment building right when the COVID thing was getting underway-- it's an artist building with lots of artist centered amenities but its a hard time to try to get to know neighbors or collaborate.

The one thing that I absolutely cannot deal with is the dimensions of my bedroom. My studio desk is against the wall and there's literally only about 14" clearance between my bed and my desk. I can barely fit a chair in that spot. I have tried everything possible ro rearrange the furniture-- I even have a an extra bedroom that I'm not really using, but I want to have my studio and my bed in this room because it's the only room that has no common walls with neighbors so I can sing louder. If only the people who built this room could have made it like 1 foot bigger. I strain my eyes because I have to sit so close to my computer and it's hard to play guitar in this space. Otherwise my bedroom studio would be perfect.


Ok, the way you explain the parallel routing makes sense. At this point I don't know New York style compression from a New York style pizza. Ok I just looked it up. Very interesting article here. I've been doing a crude version of parallel compression that gets more refined as I go. In the beginning, I thought I could just throw one compresser or limiter on the master buss and that would take care of everything-- and I was like "even though it's a little louder now, why does my music sound like it's seasick?"


https://studioslave.com/ny-parallel-com ... -mix-tips/

This makes a ton of sense. I think I learned my one important thing for the day.

regarding the Waves vocal plugins-- I've tried to use the CLA and the Eddie Kramer and neither do anything good for my particular voice. I sound really bad through the CLA( maybe it'll sound better now that I'm gonna record my vocals dry). But the JJP, Mazerati and Butch Vig are all about the saturation, and they work with my voice. I'll have to buy the Greg Wells-- it was great during the trial. I didn't know who he was but he's produced some artists whose vocal sound I like. I also really like the Manny Marroquin Triple D-- the "deboxer" is really useful at getting the boxiness out of my voice.

Ted

[RPaul]

You're probably correct that I should stop using plugins while recording. I think it's gonna be a period of adjustment to get used to not hearing anything on my voice when I'm recording it. Hearing a voice-- especially your own-- completely bone dry can be unsettling. But I think I may be reacting to the way my voice sounds with the effects on when monitoring and it's causing me to change the way I sing to compensate.

I've never been able to get good vocal recordings-- but I always just chalked it up to "My voice sucks"-- and there are definite sand traps and bunkers in my overall vocal character. But I think it's 50% recording techniques and 50% voice training. And I love singing. This year, with the lockdown is maybe the first time I've gone without singing much.

I went through a period some years back (mid-80s to mid-90s? -- or maybe even into the early 2000s) where I was kind of in the same place you describe on this stuff. My comfort zone has always been singing and playing keyboards at the same time. Standing at a microphone while listening to playback in headphones is a totally different thing, especially with "the red light" on, trying for "perfection". A few things made a big difference to me over time.

One, after getting into recording vocals in a DAW was when I started getting into AutoTune. I could be less anal about pitch and just go for the emotion, knowing that I could address some pitchiness later. That probably actually helped me sing more on pitch since I was less uptight about it, but the bottom line was I could always deal with pitch drift after laying down tracks.

Another was reading something some famous producer had said about recording some famous singer. I don't recall the specifics of producer or singer, but the deal was he'd have her sing the song through several times, straight like a performance. Then he'd comp together the bits and pieces that made sense to deal with considerations like flow, getting rid of the mistakes, and so on. Basically building the best performance from multiple takes. Prior to that point I'd always just been overdubbing, punching in for bad phrases, which was pretty much a necessity in the multitrack tape days, but isn't necessary in the DAW days.

Still another was understanding that not all mics are a good fit for all voices, and a specific mic can be a particularly bad fit. I'd started out recording my vocals with an SM-58 -- the mic I'd been using live since the mid-70s (and still use on the live front today -- not just the same model, but the same physical mic). But, probably in the mid-90s I'd read somewhere that you really should be using large diaphragm condensers for recording vocals, so I bought one, a CAD Equitek E200. It actually sounded really good on some female singers I recorded, but it accentuated the worst parts of my voice, and my vocal recordings suffered. Later on, I heard about a plugin called Antares Mic Modeler, which, at least nominally, subtracts the characteristics of the mic you are using then can add on the characteristics of some other mic, including some expensive models. They supported my E200, so I subtracted that and tried various other models, arriving at a Neumann U87 as one that seemed to work for me. Somewhere along the line, I'd come across some Usenet posts by a well-known LA-based session musician and producer raving about an inexpensive mic that he said sounded a lot like a U87 -- a Studio Projects C1. I ended up deciding to buy one of those, and it really suited my voice much better (I still use that today).

I think, though, that the biggest bottom line is finding a mental space where you can just get into the song and not be uptight about things like technique. Of course, stuff like mic technique does come into play, and time and practice help, but it's more important to not be thinking too much, so you can let the emotions flow in the performance.

My other big issue-- I suspect-- is figuring out the best ratio of input gain on my condenser mic and the distance from my mouth to the mic. I think this has been a problem area for me. Maybe some proximity effect or something. I'm always afraid of having the gain too low so I err on the side of having the mic pretty hot. I'm used to decent technique with a Shure style dynamic mic, but singing into a condenser is weird to me.

All I can suggest here is just keep playing around with it. As long as you're not overloading your A/D converters, you're probably good, and you can hear whether proximity effect is affecting your tone in a good way or not. I sing with a pop filter maybe 4 inches from the mic, then tend to be back another 4 inches or more from that, though moving in and out as needed if getting loud or needing to get softer but still keep the part audible. I'll typically be a bit closer for lead vocals and a bit farther back for backgrounds. Also, if you do a bunch of takes, not worrying too much about this stuff, you can always comp together the parts that work the best later, rather than worrying about it while you're singing. My typical number of takes for a lead vocal is about 9. The first three may be just getting into the song, especially if it is a new song that I haven't really learned well enough yet. The next three are probably going to be the main takes that get used for most of the final vocal, while the final three may be a bit more experimental, maybe more emotional, but also potentially getting a bit more tired. I typically take a short break between each set of 3 takes, for example to have a drink of water.

I took voice lessons before. My teacher helped me work through some bad habits that I did while singing. They still come back, but at least I'm aware of them now. I think if I can improve 25% of my recording skills and 25% of my technique, I'll be 100% better singer. That adds up right? haha.

I took vocal lessons for a while back during college, at the music college down the road. It really messed me up! I think it just made me think too much about things, and overthinking is the enemy of delivering an emotional performance.

The one thing that I absolutely cannot deal with is the dimensions of my bedroom. My studio desk is against the wall and there's literally only about 14" clearance between my bed and my desk. I can barely fit a chair in that spot. I have tried everything possible ro rearrange the furniture-- I even have a an extra bedroom that I'm not really using, but I want to have my studio and my bed in this room because it's the only room that has no common walls with neighbors so I can sing louder. If only the people who built this room could have made it like 1 foot bigger. I strain my eyes because I have to sit so close to my computer and it's hard to play guitar in this space. Otherwise my bedroom studio would be perfect.

My studio is on the common wall with a neighbor, and it is the typical squarish bedroom, but it is dedicated to office/studio. No beds. Don't think I could deal with the claustrophobia of the clearance you mention. I also have a 61-key keyboard right on my desk, so I can record most parts there -- I only have to walk across the room when I want to use my 88-key controller, which is typically only for piano parts.

regarding the Waves vocal plugins-- I've tried to use the CLA and the Eddie Kramer and neither do anything good for my particular voice. I sound really bad through the CLA( maybe it'll sound better now that I'm gonna record my vocals dry). But the JJP, Mazerati and Butch Vig are all about the saturation, and they work with my voice. I'll have to buy the Greg Wells-- it was great during the trial. I didn't know who he was but he's produced some artists whose vocal sound I like. I also really like the Manny Marroquin Triple D-- the "deboxer" is really useful at getting the boxiness out of my voice.

I'm not sure if I've tried Triple D on vocals. On the others, and non-Signature Series, and non-Waves stuff, I use, it really depends on the context of the song for me. I do like saturation, and CLA is based on SSL, which has what I guess is "cleaner" saturation than some of the others. Scheps Omni Channel is based on Neve, and I like that a fair bit. I've also used PSP Audioware stuff quite a bit, and that stuff mostly tends to have nice mojo on the saturation front. (Different of their products are based on different brands, and some are not specifically modeled after a given brand.) As I may have mentioned earlier, I'll typically try multiple plugins and/or plugin chains before deciding on which I'm going to use. It's all about context, though there are a few settings and/or chains I've used repeatedly, even to the point of documenting the chains on a OneNote page so I can remember them for trying on further projects.

Rick