Need "better lyrics" on return S210809NK

[Cameloide]

I disagree. The feedback is not at all misguided. All one has to do is look at the lyrical styles of modern pop artists per the reference tracks. There is imagery, "show me don't tell me" aspects, more conversational-ness (at times), etc. Mark's song is a very lovely ballad and not contemporary. It might have it's place but not even close for this listing. And the lyrics are very cliche, nothing new and interesting. Based on the feedback, look at the lyrics to the reference tracks and look at yours (Mark).

I think suggesting that Billie Eilish's brother could produce this and the screener wouldn't say a word about the lyrics is dead wrong. Screeners review per the listing requirements and this listing was very clear that excellent lyrics were required. And Billie and her brother would never produce something with words like these so it's a moot point.

Mark... Read some of Robin Frederick's books. Study the lyrics of modern artists. I often look at Billie Eilish, Taylor Swift and others for inspiration on modern female lyric writing. The other refs here are good as well. One thing I do a lot of is "ghosting". I take a known song by a contemporary artist and write a new set of lyrics to the approximate melody. As I do it, I get to study how they express themselves.

Well, we all have opinions don't we? But I stand by what I said. The difference between Mark's lyrics and Pink or Lady Gaga's song is much smaller and less important than the gap between his production/mix and the production/mix of the references, and it's not even close, consequently the misguided feedback has him scrambling to fix a minor issue when he should be refining his production/mixing. My point is that until he level's up in that area lyric changes won't make much difference.

And yes Finneas could easily produce this into something screeners would forward. Let's not kid ourselves either "excellent lyrics" in the pop world is pretty much an oxymoron, cliches are the norm, but never the less there are plenty of creative writing books out there that could help one improve, so the sky's the limit.

[markanthony]

Ok so I have a clarifying question, I believe I asked earlier but got buried. The listing did not ask for broadcast quality. Just good enough to represent the song. That is why it is only vocals and piano (it's not even a human playing it). I think the reviewer didn't mention production aspects because it wasn't meant to be a finished mix/master ready-to-go. This is a demo mix, basically. Did I interpret the listing wrong in that area? If it said "broadcast quality" then yes that's a different story. But "good enough to represent song well" can be interpreted in different ways, too (I interpret that as "demo mix").

[Casey H]

Mark
Was that the ENTIRE feedback? Given it was an "S" listing, I would think there would be more. Often, the screener lists a main reason for return which does not mean everything else meets the bar and there may or may not be comments on other aspects. Given that it is an "S" listing (full review), if that's ALL you got, I would contact Taxi and ask if they could provide more.

Also keep in mind this is an ULTRA high bar listing (a HUGE, Grammy-winning Artist working on her next album). Only the creme of the crop in all aspects of the submission would be forwarded. The listing makes it clear that it has to sound like something that would be on the Top 40 charts right now.

[markanthony]

That was the complete feedback except for parts they said they like in that text box. The only checkbox was the lyrics and the text parts I copied verbatim form the screener (in my original post).

Edit: here's the part not posted in OP:

What I like most about this song:

I love the chord progression of this song. I love the passion in the vocal.

[Kolstad]

adding to the suggestions, here are some pointers

- the lyrics does not introduce the characters in the song, first verse is a good place for that
- title is "we are not alone", but this is not set up in any way, it just comes out of the blue, it mght be a good idea to lead more up to the title. Try the old advice, that every line in the lyric should be written so the title could be sung after it
- there are lines about pride ect in the lyrics, yet it is sung by a female. It sounds like a man wrote this for a woman, which is not very kosher these days. Get a male singer, or get a female cowriter to sort out the male lyrics
- the vocals/mix has an intimate vibe to it, yet the lyrics seems very abstract, so the prosody is not great. Try change the lyrics to first person perspective, so it becomes more believable as an intimate song
- the vocals are very pitchy in the first line. This creates a filter for listening to the rest, try pitch correct it, or do some more takes. In a demo you want every note to the point, so they can hear the song properly as written

Lyrics is definitely the one thing that can make or break a song - keep up the good work!

I second the advice to get Robin Frederick's books. If you write lyrics, it's a must-have.

just2cents keeporsweep

[markanthony]

Good feedback. And no, that line wasn't written by me. The female cowriter and vocalist wrote it. I only wrote the first verse. The rest was written by her (with minor revising by the both of us). I got the 3 books by that author today on my Kindle now. Great recommendation.

As for pitch, I've tried various ways to polish but sounded strange if I went further than was done. Need to get better at Melodyne or just leave the vocals alone. I think I may have made it more pitchy by accident.

Thank you all!

[cosmicdolphin]

Without reading the whole thread, I agree with the Screener - There's a lot of cliche's in your lyric, it's very much old hat-been there-heard it before kinda stuff.

Contemporary lyrics are a lot more conversational these days. Make it more personal and give us details.

[RPaul]

Ok so I have a clarifying question, I believe I asked earlier but got buried. The listing did not ask for broadcast quality. Just good enough to represent the song. That is why it is only vocals and piano (it's not even a human playing it). I think the reviewer didn't mention production aspects because it wasn't meant to be a finished mix/master ready-to-go. This is a demo mix, basically. Did I interpret the listing wrong in that area? If it said "broadcast quality" then yes that's a different story. But "good enough to represent song well" can be interpreted in different ways, too (I interpret that as "demo mix").

Given that this was a song pitch for a major artist, which means extremely high bar on the song quality, as well as its fitting the specific listing criteria (e.g. genre, being sufficiently contemporary within that genre, etc.), if the song didn't measure up (which it clearly didn't on the lyrical front, and I strongly suspect on being sufficiently contemporary -- I wasn't paying much attention to that side of things since your question was specifically related to the lyrics), it wouldn't matter how good the demo was or wasn't.

Had the song measured up, then it would likely depend on how effectively your demo presented your song, and that will at least partly depend on the song itself. For example, a ballad can often come across with a piano/vocal demo (there have even been some big hits that don't have much production beyond piano/vocal), while a dance-oriented number probably won't. Of course, it depends on who is ultimately listening to the demo -- can they hear it through whatever level of production you have? If it is a producer hearing it first, a more stripped down demo can often be beneficial since it is easier to hear what they might do with it than if you've got a lot going on that would distract from hearing the thoughts. Ultimately, though, with an artist of the stature suggested in the listing, a high caliber producer would be producing tracks for any songs the artist picks, so your tracks aren't likely to matter beyond their being sufficient to sell the song.

Mind you I'm talking about arrangement and production level, not recording quality. Even if you've just got a piano/vocal demo, you'll want a quality mix. (I didn't notice any obvious issues with your recording in my quick, once-through background listen to your song, but I wasn't really paying close attention to that, beyond getting a feel for the song itself, especially with respect to whether it felt contemporary or not given the listing.) How much you can conceivably get away with on that front may depend on the combination of how compelling your song is and who is listening. Anything that isn't up to snuff, and thus might distract from paying full attention to the song, is best avoided. So probably don't send the version digitized from a hissy cassette version.

Rick

[markanthony]

Very good clarification Rick. Thank you. I did look at the forwards blog and saw there were no public forwards for the listing. So the bar is high just to get a forward on this one.

[songmaster]

I think what the screener means is this. Here are two lines that say the same thing:

The universe is closing around me in this tiny void...or, how Taylor Swift would say it:

I'm in my room, it's a typical Tuesday night.

They just want something that is very conversational, so people don't have to think too hard.

Tom

Like Homer Simpson said " We have politicians, so we don't have to think". or something like that.