Song in a format something like a short story

[MJLeeman]

Some time ago, looking to structure a general idea into some sort of pattern for a song, I wrote lyrics where I tried to develop a theme/story which followed a typical short story format. I recall learning somewhere about the usual format of a fiction novel, where the tension and release could be shown on a graph (with terms like tension, release, climax, denoument, quick ending) and that in the case of a short story or a stage play, there could not be even a single word out of place due to the shortness of the form. This would seems to be consistent with the time constraints of a 3 or 4 minute song. The storyline led to an earlier than usual middle 8, and that might have put things out of balance. But to correct this with another verse would have led to an almost 5-minute song, so I went with the early middle 8.

Not sure if I overthought the whole process, but anyway it gave me a structure, and here is the song (I hired a singer but did everything else myself):-

https://www.taxi.com/members/nwRU7pygQr ... h-no-love-

Intro Verse 1, Verse 2, Chorus, Middle 8, Verse 3, Chorus (varied), Chorus, Outro


Cheers
Michael Leeman

[GilOrms]

Some time ago, looking to structure a general idea into some sort of pattern for a song, I wrote lyrics where I tried to develop a theme/story which followed a typical short story format. I recall learning somewhere about the usual format of a fiction novel, where the tension and release could be shown on a graph (with terms like tension, release, climax, denoument, quick ending) and that in the case of a short story or a stage play, there could not be even a single word out of place due to the shortness of the form. This would seems to be consistent with the time constraints of a 3 or 4 minute song. The storyline led to an earlier than usual middle 8, and that might have put things out of balance. But to correct this with another verse would have led to an almost 5-minute song, so I went with the early middle 8.

Not sure if I overthought the whole process, but anyway it gave me a structure, and here is the song (I hired a singer but did everything else myself):-

https://www.taxi.com/members/nwRU7pygQr ... h-no-love-

Intro Verse 1, Verse 2, Chorus, Middle 8, Verse 3, Chorus (varied), Chorus, Outro


Cheers
Michael Leeman

I quite like this kind of stuff, long melodic lines rambling over unexpected harmonic
stabs/changes but I don't see much call for it in Taxi, even if the production was upped.

Conventional song structure is more focussed and differentiated, so you know verses from chorus etc.

Regards,

GO

[Casey H]

Intro Verse 1, Verse 2, Chorus, Middle 8, Verse 3, Chorus (varied), Chorus, Outro

The most common popular song structure (look at hit songs) is V C V C B C with maybe a repeat C at the end. (B = bridge). I would not do a double verse to start, as you did, if that means you won't get to the chorus in under a minute (45 seconds even better). Your song doesn't get to the chorus until 1:10 which is problematic. Most publishers would give up on it long before that. It's "Get to the chorus, don't bore us".

HTH
Casey

[MJLeeman]

Thanks for your feedback, Casey. I appreciate your input and acknowledge that your feedback is practical in that it is directed to the aim of doing what is required in order to get music forwarded and placed.

I agree with your observation about getting to the chorus asap as a general rule for music publishers. I continue to try to write songs which conform to the format which you describe. The point of my post, however, and the song which I linked on this occasion, is that I was inviting comments on whether it is feasible to structure a song format which roughly mirrors the traditional structure of a novel, short story or play. Without labouring the point, in my subject song, "From the Shadows", there are only two (non-identical) choruses, and the first two verses are needed, or so I think, to set up the conflict prior to the first chorus. If I had included another chorus before verse 2, then we end up with a five-minute song.

Anyway, I appreciate that my song may well not be something usable by TAXI's clients, and of course, that is okay. I am merely experimenting. I guess that I was trying to invite discussion about song formats generally. I have recently bought a series of books about songwriting tips by Robin Frederick, and this explains my interest in this topic.

Cheers
Michael Leeman

[Casey H]

I should have asked... What's your goal for the song? Pitch to publishers for other artists? Film/TV? Your own music releases? Also, what are the lyrics (if you don't mind posting them)? I couldn't make them all out on this laptop.

Casey

[MJLeeman]

I would aim to pitch to publishers for other artists. (It's not me singing). You asked for the lyrics. Here they are:-

(Shadows)
(Shadows)
He once knew someone
With no love
Strange for a while
Before they moved on
He thought it was the end
He didn’t want another beginning
Started wondering
If it's okay

They looked out on the soft rainy nights
At the endless hiss of the cars outside
From a place that was always quiet and at peace
An inner sanctu'ry when there was a need
With always somehow to let each wound bleed
Without the fear of worrying if it’s okay

From the shadows he looked out
He heard someone say
You should call it a day, a long day
Time ran out on that roundabout
And as the good times rolled away
He got lost in shadows

Lost among (shadows)
And even running from shadows

He could not believe
How they could deceive
Leaving him wond'ring

When he learns another one’s gone
Still looking for lost love
Or so he heard
He didn’t care
Because he knows it’s near the end
And they’ll never have another beginning
They can hear a voice echoin' through the night
a-shoutin' it’s okay
Okay
I am okay

From the shadows he just steps out
No need to say
Betta call it a day, a long day
But time’s run out on that roundabout
As a tired man turns away
Praying God’s waiting in the shadows

They're looking from (shadows)
Lost among (shadows)
No escaping from (shadows)
And no good running from shadows

He’s not watching from (shadows)
And not lost among (shadows)
Never hiding in (shadows)
And no more running from shadows


Cheers
Michael

[Casey H]

I would aim to pitch to publishers for other artists. (It's not me singing). You asked for the lyrics. Here they are:-

Thanks for sharing. You probably know this but making a placement with an artist is one of the most competitive and challenging things in the universe. Even with a great song, odds are infinitesimal. Don't want to discourage you or anyone, just being realistic. This song and the vocal & recording wouldn't be competitive. What genre are you thinking? Country is one of the few genres where an outside writer **might** get a cut. Your song would have to as good or better than today's Billboard chart hits. Do you listen to current music of your favorite genre? Even the rough demos publishers get nowadays are killer.

As far as the lyrics, it's not so much the structure (though it does take to long to get to the chorus) it's that no one readily knows what the song is about. Hit songs are not this abstract, they cover something that every listener can quickly and easily relate to (love, loss, happiness, breakup, etc). Ralph Murphy (RIP) used to say, "What's in it for the 17-22 year woman driving to work in the morning?" Also, songs written in the 3rd person ("he" not "I" or "You") don't fare as well. The listener want's to feel it on a more personal level.

When I first started, I would send songs to publishers and the lyrics would come back marked up like a high school English paper with, "I don't know what this song is about". That taught me a lot.

My suggestion is immerse yourself in listening to today's hit songs, read Robin Frederick's and other songwriting books, and improve the craft. This is meant to be helpful, I hope it's taken that way.

Best,
Casey

[MJLeeman]

Thanks, Casey. I'll keep at it.

Cheers
Michael