Let's Socialize

[cosmicdolphin]

No hook, no song.

I think it's more basic than that Tom, you could have a song in a TV show that has no hook because they want it to remain in the background more.

However, No Harmonic Structure = No Song ( at least in Western Music which is what we're aiming for here )

[Casey H]

No hook, no song.

I think it's more basic than that Tom, you could have a song in a TV show that has no hook because they want it to remain in the background more.

My experience has been that you'd be hard pressed to get a VOCAL song in a good library with no hook, usually a chorus. While it's true the usages are background, often quite buried, the libraries still want good songs to start with. They want songs they can pitch to a wide variety of potential uses. I've heard library owners including from the "critical" library that they generally listen for a good chorus. Hooks matter. And it's Songwriting 101 for anyone trying to get into this business.

However, No Harmonic Structure = No Song ( at least in Western Music which is what we're aiming for here )

That goes without saying. A melody that follows a key, instruments playing in time and not clashing, etc. are required. Or else it's just a pile of noise.

[CTWF]

Let's say, there should be a short and simple melodic line which could be understood as the core of the track.

[irwin]

I have a question guys, is it all my music (meaning) drums pattern, bass and everything I played into my music production creation that's bad or is it just the chord progressions.

Irwin

[irwin]

Please provide the hook, i.e. the main melodic idea, for your song.

No hook, no song.

Hi CTWF, about the song's hook. I thought "Let's Socialize" was the hook of my song.

I'm I wrong about that?.

The hook is the chorus, is it that what you are asking me to present to you?

Irwin

[cosmicdolphin]

I have a question guys, is it all my music (meaning) drums pattern, bass and everything I played into my music production creation that's bad or is it just the chord progressions.

Irwin

I would say it's pretty much everything but it's hard to tell exactly

[CTWF]

Please provide the hook, i.e. the main melodic idea, for your song.

No hook, no song.

Hi CTWF, about the song's hook. I thought "Let's Socialize" was the hook of my song.

I'm I wrong about that?.

The hook is the chorus, is it that what you are asking me to present to you?

Irwin

She says, not even really sings, "let' socialize". This is no hook, sorry. Forum folks can correct me if I am wrong.

[audiogust]

Hi Irwin,

Another suggestion for making songs that fit a specific key is to look at a tool like Hooktheory.com. They have some great tools for figuring out chord progressions as well as thousands of popular songs broken down so you can see what chords they use at https://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab. The other nice thing is they have some lessons on basic harmonic theory that are very approachable and using the numeric method for understanding chords within a key, it becomes much simpler to create chord progressions that will work for your songs.

I have no connection to Hooktheory, but it has been a great tool for me as I've worked on creating more interesting chord progressions in my songs.

Best of luck!
-Chris

[MJLeeman]

Hi Irwin
I have been following this thread with interest. I have a general observation which you might find relevant. Forgive me if I ramble on, but it’s the only way that I can illustrate what I mean.
My point is about tonality. In this song you pretty obviously deliberately set out to ensure that melody and harmony do not combine to produce the normally accepted dissonance and consonance, characteristic of the traditional Western music system. For me, this does not work, not so much because of the sounds themselves, but more because your method seems random: to my ears, this is what creates the disorder. There is no apparent logic in the musical direction. The original movement against tonality, from early last century, was anything but random; in fact, it was highly regulated with strict rules which needed to be followed. That music, though it deliberately avoided traditional tonality, is actually very ordered and logical. It fits the definition of music as ordered sound.
So, in my opinion, if you decide to continue with your general approach, you would need to figure out how to communicate a definite sense of order within the chaos, so to speak, but I believe that this would be an extremely difficult task, and the result might still not appeal to the average listener.
Having said this, you are of course perfectly free to create music as and how you wish, and best of luck in your endeavours. If you decide to make the move to a more traditional sound, then I would suggest that you first look at experimenting/improvising with some basic keyboard harmony, with three-note chords in the right hand. But that is another matter.
Cheers
Michael

[CTWF]

[...] you pretty obviously deliberately set out to ensure that melody and harmony do not combine to produce the normally accepted dissonance and consonance, characteristic of the traditional Western music system.

I do not think that this is true, because Irwin often asks if his songs could potentially be hits and in his follow-up versions he often thinks he has fixed or identified the problems (which usually is not at all the case). So, no, it is not deliberate from what I observed here over the years.