When is it appropriate to go to the head screener?

[Casey H]

Please submit original 1970s-Style Disco Instrumental Cues brimming with great energy and dance floor-ready grooves! Your submissions should have captivating and catchy motifs, four-on-the-floor, Disco-style rhythms

I agree that "Car Wash" wasn't the best reference track for this as it leaned more funk, less four-on-the-floor. But your return comments on "Watch My Bar" didn't mention anything except the sounds. It's possible that if the sounds were good enough, you would have gotten the forward.

Sometimes you have to put all the clues together-- the verbiage and the references and try to cover all bases. It's not perfect but nothing is-- music supervisors can be bad at describing what they want and Taxi listings do a great job of translating what they ask for into something more cohesive. But again, nothing is 100% perfect.

As we've said, you got some cool tracks that can be marketed elsewhere.

Best,
Casey

[BradleyHagen]

Thanks Casey- The whole "trying to read the tea leaves" think is annoying AF.... I know that I can do IT, but what is IT?? This is easily the most frustrating part of this business

[stansongman]

I agree with the previous comments. Your tracks are fun and happy, but I'm not feeling that Studio 54 vibe. I think they are a better fit for a funk/soul pitch. I got similar feedback as you on the style of some of my submissions. I tried to channel different artists when creating them, and the ones that were returned were more late '70s disco, and the screener felt they were better for funk/soul/electro pop pitches. So, when they say 70's disco, maybe the takeaway is that they mean early '70s. I was thinking Blondie and ABBA for two of my pitches which would be at the tail end of the 70's and into the early 80s, and those were returned.

I think you should be fine with pitching these going forward for funk/soul pitches, but I'd still address the comments about the production. Disco was my life in the 70's, so I thought I'd share more detailed feedback.

Here are some things you could consider IMHO tl;dr:
Frantic/Virtual: I don't think your tracks are frantic. In disco, though, there is always a very solid signature that can be either a riff or melodic thing (strings in the intro of Car Wash, or Heaven Must Be Missing an Angel for example). That gets repeated through out in the turnarounds, etc. I don't feel a definitive signature in the tracks.

Reverb: your tracks were pretty wet, which is going to muddy up the horn stabs/etc. I usually use something drier, like a scoring stage reverb as opposed to a hall reverb. Editors can add their own reverb if they decide it's needed.

Drums: Disco drums are tight and dry, and the basic groove is pretty specific - 4 on the floor, open high hat on the upbeats of 2 and 4, and closed on 2 and 4 with the snare. I used Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 for my sound and grooves, and use a dry kit, plus tweak the envelopes on the kick and toms so that they don't ring out much. Finally, I double the kick with a subkick sound so I can pump the bottom end up to get that disco "thump".
Horns: Your horn lines have more sustained notes in them, and your stabs ring out a lot. You could shorten the stabs up quite a bit. For sounds, I use either Kontakt Session Horns, or for more intricate programming I use Mojo2 Horns. Mojo2 has stab articulations which work great. That's a plugin that has more of a learning curve but they sound great.

Guitar: You have a lot of guitar, which is usually used more for the comping (a la Nile Rodgers) as opposed to being in the forefront. You are using them more in a funk context which is also why the screener might have felt they were more funk than disco.

Bass: The bass groove usually has that walking 8ths octave vibe, and the high note of the octaves are usually popped. I use either the funk bass from the Kontakt Factory Library or a funk bass from EastWest and then compress/eq it to keep it tight.

Strings: I didn't hear any strings. They are used heavily in early disco, and can carry a lot of the melody weight. Doubling with glockenspiel and/or flute is used a ton. Tavares is one of my go-to examples for early disco that uses these techniques. For strings, I use Disco Strings for Kontakt by Keyboard Waves (Disco Strings for Kontakt). I also use Kontakt Session Strings, but I like the disco strings better for these kinds of projects, they are very playable and responsive.

Percussion: Hand claps on 2 and 4, cowbell on the beat at least in the chorus (not always, but KC used it all the time). Latin percussion is always good to add, especially in a break. I use Toontracks Latin Percussion EZX for all of that.

This is a lot, but you complimented my tracks and just wanted to share my approach, I hope there are things you find helpful. Meanwhile, pitch those tracks for funk/soul!

[BradleyHagen]

I agree with the previous comments. Your tracks are fun and happy, but I'm not feeling that Studio 54 vibe. I think they are a better fit for a funk/soul pitch. I got similar feedback as you on the style of some of my submissions. I tried to channel different artists when creating them, and the ones that were returned were more late '70s disco, and the screener felt they were better for funk/soul/electro pop pitches. So, when they say 70's disco, maybe the takeaway is that they mean early '70s. I was thinking Blondie and ABBA for two of my pitches which would be at the tail end of the 70's and into the early 80s, and those were returned.

I think you should be fine with pitching these going forward for funk/soul pitches, but I'd still address the comments about the production. Disco was my life in the 70's, so I thought I'd share more detailed feedback.

Here are some things you could consider IMHO tl;dr:
Frantic/Virtual: I don't think your tracks are frantic. In disco, though, there is always a very solid signature that can be either a riff or melodic thing (strings in the intro of Car Wash, or Heaven Must Be Missing an Angel for example). That gets repeated through out in the turnarounds, etc. I don't feel a definitive signature in the tracks.

Reverb: your tracks were pretty wet, which is going to muddy up the horn stabs/etc. I usually use something drier, like a scoring stage reverb as opposed to a hall reverb. Editors can add their own reverb if they decide it's needed.

Drums: Disco drums are tight and dry, and the basic groove is pretty specific - 4 on the floor, open high hat on the upbeats of 2 and 4, and closed on 2 and 4 with the snare. I used Toontrack Superior Drummer 3 for my sound and grooves, and use a dry kit, plus tweak the envelopes on the kick and toms so that they don't ring out much. Finally, I double the kick with a subkick sound so I can pump the bottom end up to get that disco "thump".
Horns: Your horn lines have more sustained notes in them, and your stabs ring out a lot. You could shorten the stabs up quite a bit. For sounds, I use either Kontakt Session Horns, or for more intricate programming I use Mojo2 Horns. Mojo2 has stab articulations which work great. That's a plugin that has more of a learning curve but they sound great.

Guitar: You have a lot of guitar, which is usually used more for the comping (a la Nile Rodgers) as opposed to being in the forefront. You are using them more in a funk context which is also why the screener might have felt they were more funk than disco.

Bass: The bass groove usually has that walking 8ths octave vibe, and the high note of the octaves are usually popped. I use either the funk bass from the Kontakt Factory Library or a funk bass from EastWest and then compress/eq it to keep it tight.

Strings: I didn't hear any strings. They are used heavily in early disco, and can carry a lot of the melody weight. Doubling with glockenspiel and/or flute is used a ton. Tavares is one of my go-to examples for early disco that uses these techniques. For strings, I use Disco Strings for Kontakt by Keyboard Waves (Disco Strings for Kontakt). I also use Kontakt Session Strings, but I like the disco strings better for these kinds of projects, they are very playable and responsive.

Percussion: Hand claps on 2 and 4, cowbell on the beat at least in the chorus (not always, but KC used it all the time). Latin percussion is always good to add, especially in a break. I use Toontracks Latin Percussion EZX for all of that.

This is a lot, but you complimented my tracks and just wanted to share my approach, I hope there are things you find helpful. Meanwhile, pitch those tracks for funk/soul!

Thank you for taking the time and I appreciate your feedback! BTW, I am a Toontrack guy as well, but I just HATE using their vintage, drier sounding libraries, they are not very good IMHO..... I guess that I have to get over that!

[stansongman]

For the disco stuff, I use the "dry seventy-seven" or "dry seventies" sounds.

[BradleyHagen]

Hi Stan-
You know what is f***ed about getting all of my disco tracks returned?? I PLAYED THE DAMN BASS ON EVERY ONE OF THEM! And it is DISCO BASS!! Why and how do I know this? Because I played in disco bands for a living back in the 90's...ON BASS!! When I warm up on bass in my studio what do I play? DISCO RIFFS! (Well, sometimes Rush and Duran Duran, but I digress....) Ever heard of "Boogie Knights?" or any of the other disco bands that were a part of that franchise? Yeah, I played disco in those bands....ON BASS GUITAR!!
That is what really sticks in my craw man..... I thought I had that listing NAILED........ dammit

Rant Over......

[AlanHall]

Bradley,
Just listened to your tracks; crazy good grooving and comping! They will find a good home. While listening to the tracks I was thinking Ohio Players, Average White Band, Wild Cherry, etc. as similar music. Dance hall music, yes, but too sophisticated and intricate for what I think of as Disco.

A hard part I find with listings is that there may be a very narrow sub-genre desired and I'm not really picking up what may be subtle cues that differentiate it from what I already know. I'm eager to start composing what I'm familiar with and lose sight of the details of the brief. I'm not saying that is true in your case, but I think it is quite common.

[cosmicdolphin]

That is what really sticks in my craw man..... I thought I had that listing NAILED........ dammit

Yeah we have all been through it. Back in 2016 there was a listing for 80s New Wave and one of the references was 'Just Can't Get Enough' by Depeche Mode. Now I am a huge DM fan since the 80s, I've seen them live a bunch of time, read all the studio intereviews and I knew exactly what synths, drum machines etc Vince Clarke used when he wrote that song and how the song was put together. So I went about recreating that setup with my VST synths and came up with what I thought was a very decent but melodically orginal soundalike using all the stuff they used on the record. I even made sure to only use FX that would have been available at that time, era appropriate reverbs , delays etc.

What was the result of all this insider knowledge and careful planning ? A f####g return. I'm still p####d about it now 8yrs later. I can kinda live with the return the the worst smack in the face was that I went to the Forwards blog and the first track forwarded had f#####g guitars on it and sounded like a Duran Duran song.

Anyway, it's never been used for anything - this is it : https://on.soundcloud.com/H3ZK8

I still think I was right and it should have been forwarded. F##k knows what the screener was smoking

[BradleyHagen]

That is what really sticks in my craw man..... I thought I had that listing NAILED........ dammit

Yeah we have all been through it. Back in 2016 there was a listing for 80s New Wave and one of the references was 'Just Can't Get Enough' by Depeche Mode. Now I am a huge DM fan since the 80s, I've seen them live a bunch of time, read all the studio intereviews and I knew exactly what synths, drum machines etc Vince Clarke used when he wrote that song and how the song was put together. So I went about recreating that setup with my VST synths and came up with what I thought was a very decent but melodically orginal soundalike using all the stuff they used on the record. I even made sure to only use FX that would have been available at that time, era appropriate reverbs , delays etc.

What was the result of all this insider knowledge and careful planning ? A f####g return. I'm still p####d about it now 8yrs later. I can kinda live with the return the the worst smack in the face was that I went to the Forwards blog and the first track forwarded had f#####g guitars on it and sounded like a Duran Duran song.

Anyway, it's never been used for anything - this is it : https://on.soundcloud.com/H3ZK8

I still think I was right and it should have been forwarded. F##k knows what the screener was smoking

Right?? It sounds 100% appropriate to me!! It is like the perfect 80''s DM instrumental cue!! Yeah, I just don't get it sometimes, but what can you do?? I guess that I will stop ranting about it, and just keep moving on - Thanks Mark

[BradleyHagen]

Bradley,
Just listened to your tracks; crazy good grooving and comping! They will find a good home. While listening to the tracks I was thinking Ohio Players, Average White Band, Wild Cherry, etc. as similar music. Dance hall music, yes, but too sophisticated and intricate for what I think of as Disco.

A hard part I find with listings is that there may be a very narrow sub-genre desired and I'm not really picking up what may be subtle cues that differentiate it from what I already know. I'm eager to start composing what I'm familiar with and lose sight of the details of the brief. I'm not saying that is true in your case, but I think it is quite common.

Thanks Alan- I appreciate your thoughts! I guess that I am just not a very good "genre" person... I used to play covers from ALL of the above artists in various disco bands, along with the obligatory Chic, Bee Gees, Donna Summer, etc and just considered it all to be "disco"...Oh well, lesson learned!