Upgrade DAW hardware - soliciting advice

[AlanHall]

I've been a Mac addict as long as I can remember, and am not looking to change (but am open to suggestions as long as they don't involve high explosives!).

My current setup is housed in a Mac Pro 5,1 (2012 Mac Pro) with 32GB ram, a 6-core processor, and a MOTU PCI-424 card driving the IO. I know that the IO will have to be swapped out for something else in order to be compatible, that can be discussed but is not the main task here.
I'm looking at some 2019 Mac Pros on ebay (about U$1800 currently) with 192GB ram (!!) and 16 cores. Clock speed probably a bit faster than what I have now. Other than sticking with a Mac Pro, what are my options?
I've been running a lot of VIs lately, and want something that allows me to keep my buffering latency down to manageable values.
I have four HDD/SSDs internal to the box (three plus the system drive) and a couple USB drives for archiving and time machine functions.

Am I wrong to consider a 6yo computer (supreme workhorse that it is) with an OS cap of MacOS14?
What else should I be considering? What are the right questions to ask myself?

[RealPickle]

I am by no means a tech expert, but I am a fellow Mac addict who recently bought a refurbished MacBook pro on Ebay. I realize you are dealing in the much more powerful world of desktops but the principles should be the same.

First, 192 GB ram, OMG. I cannot imagine any application, short of hacking into the Pentagon and flying military drones from your computer, that would require anywhere near that level of memory.

But to the point: I have a 2019 model and I'm running iOS 15 Sequoia, so I'm not sure why you think you'll be capped at OS 14? I have been extremely happy with mine so far. The companies that refurb these machines tend to do a great job and the computer acts way younger than it is. My only gripe is that the battery wasn't brand new so my battery performance has been bad, but that's irrelevant to your situation.

I almost exclusively run VIs (save the occasional vocal recording) and it handles them without issues. I would imagine that machine you describe should easily be able to handle anything you throw at it, for a good long time. The only issue I can foresee is that Mac switched to their M1 chips in 2020 so you'd be buying one of the last models with the old Intel chips. By all accounts the M1s (and now M2s) are a far, far superior chip to the Intels, so it's a bummer to not get in on that technology, but it's not like you've been using it up to now so you won't notice the difference. You can find newer models on Ebay with the newer chips but in my experience the price point jumps significantly.

[cosmicdolphin]

By all accounts the M1s (and now M2s) are a far, far superior chip to the Intels,

I'm no Mac fan but we're up to M4 now ( the wife likes them ) ...Personally I would never buy 6yr old tech ( I used to sell PCs & Macs..around £1.5m worth each year ) but that's usually the point at which I am getting rid of my machines and upgrading.

Something like the M4 Studio Max would be my choice in that type of budget ( actually I'd build a kick ass PC but that's another story ) but the M4 will wipe the floor with that older 16core Xeon when it comes to running lots of VIs and plugins

https://youtu.be/oVUNzjs63GQ?si=Es62BL7ATIQFcV5x

[AlanHall]

Geoff, Mark, thanks for your input and the point/counterpoint (!) You've given me good stuff to go and research.

looking a bit more at the macbook pro with the M4 chip, I see refurb 2021 models available in/around my price range. M4 (no suffix) is about the price I like, a M4 Pro about US$500 more. Geekbench gives a multithread benchmark of about 24,000 for the M4, 38,000 for the M4 pro, and in the middle 31,000 for the 2019 tower that I was looking at. All of these are a good 5x to 8x faster than the benchmark I could find for my existing rig! This goes a long way to feeling good about performance gains that I want.

[aside]I must admit, I grew up in the era of "desktop beefy, laptop wimpy" so am a little hesitant to move to a tiny little thing for a workstation. That's on me, though. I need to look at some more recent models and think again about my actual needs.[/aside]

[cosmicdolphin]

looking a bit more at the macbook pro with the M4 chip, I see refurb 2021 models available in/around my price range.

Are you sure. The M4 chip was only launched mid-2024

[AlanHall]

looking a bit more at the macbook pro with the M4 chip, I see refurb 2021 models available in/around my price range.

Are you sure. The M4 chip was only launched mid-2024

Well, that's what I thought I read. In the meantime, the breadth of Mac offerings is far wider than I imagined. I saw a late '24 Mac mini (M4 pro chip) that specs out nearly to top-of-the-line macbook pro models. Totally outperforms the 2019 Mac Pro I'm looking at. I guess one question I should ask myself, is "do I need a built-in screen and keyboard?" If the answer is no, then a tiny block of plastic may be the future of computing for me.

[cosmicdolphin]

looking a bit more at the macbook pro with the M4 chip, I see refurb 2021 models available in/around my price range.

Are you sure. The M4 chip was only launched mid-2024

Well, that's what I thought I read. In the meantime, the breadth of Mac offerings is far wider than I imagined. I saw a late '24 Mac mini (M4 pro chip) that specs out nearly to top-of-the-line macbook pro models. Totally outperforms the 2019 Mac Pro I'm looking at. I guess one question I should ask myself, is "do I need a built-in screen and keyboard?" If the answer is no, then a tiny block of plastic may be the future of computing for me.

Even the M2 ( which my wife has ) wasn't released until 2022 so any 2021 machines must be the M1 unless there's been a typo on the age of the machine.

Obviously you're paying a chunk extra by opting for a machine that's got a screen built in - If you already have a screen or screens you're happy with why pay for another. I usually get my wife a Mac Mini as that's all she needs.

If I was an Apple guy I'd probably go for a Mac Studio as you can spec it with more ram and it has better cooling etc. I asked CHat GPT which was the best option.....it was quite adamant about not buying the older machine.

2019 Mac Pro – Why It's a Terrible Buy in 2025

Obsolete Architecture
Intel-based, so it’s already being left behind by Apple’s own software optimisations.

Can’t compete with even a base model M2 Mac in many workflows.

Terrible Value
Even used, they go for £2k–£3k+ — and for what? You can get WAY more power and efficiency from a £600 Mac Mini M2 or a Windows PC.

No Native ARM Support
No access to Apple Silicon-exclusive features and future updates.

Long-term support is dwindling — macOS won’t keep Intel Macs alive forever.

Energy Hungry & Loud
It’s a noisy, power-sucking behemoth. You could heat your studio with it.

Compared to the silent, cool-running M-series chips, it’s like buying a diesel engine in an EV world.

Apple Itself Has Moved On
Apple Silicon is the present and future.

You’re buying into a dead platform — might as well start collecting VHS tapes while you're at it.

What to Tell Him Instead
If he must go Apple: “Get a Mac Mini M2 Pro or a used Mac Studio. You’ll save thousands and actually get better performance.”

[AlanHall]

2019 Mac Pro – Why It's a Terrible Buy in 2025

OK! OK! I can't win, you have the high ground here

I agree that silicon has proven itself in the years since its roll-out. Mostly due to the SW providers working out incompatibilities. I won't be the one finding the bugs, that work is done. I don't need to fear Apple Silicon any longer.

Thanks Mark, I appreciate your time.

[cosmicdolphin]

Thanks Mark, I appreciate your time.

No worries. I spent a decade advising people on this stuff , including a a few minor celebs

[cosmicdolphin]

I agree that silicon has proven itself in the years since its roll-out. Mostly due to the SW providers working out incompatibilities. I won't be the one finding the bugs, that work is done. I don't need to fear Apple Silicon any longer.

This might help you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz5JpUC ... RKOverload