Commercial vs Creative

[hummingbird]

Oct 2, 2008, 12:36pm, mojobone wrote:Let me see if I've got this right, Da Vinci did the walls and Michaelangelo did the ceiling?oops, that was a blooper, wasn't it? Yeah, insert correct artist name

[battlematrix]

Quote:I prefer to get excited by the idea that I can paint my own masterpiece within the frame provided. I know my creativity is up to the task. In fact, I think the fact that I can express myself within the ‘confines’ of an ‘a la’ makes the ‘me’ in me stronger and more resilient ~ Hi V-Bird!!! (My 2nd post... I know, I’ll will do a intro instead of being a ghost!!!)Wonderful post and very "on the mark" quote.I feel that people get lost in their own determination to find that "perfect" spot/equipment/tools that they forget that they, their mind, is the main tool and whatever he/she is using isn't always the most important item(s) for creativity. Yes we all need tools to manifest ideas, but without having those ideas in the 1st place, what good are those physical/virtual tools would be. It's no different when people/businesses try to convince other to use "this" instead of "that" for reason that really have no merits but only to showcase/promote that tool (TV commercials). In the end, you as the creator, is the best tool in the toolbox. Most things/items are made to assist in making those ideas become an reality, NOT to put people down or to make them feel like they can not accomplish "their ideas" without having the "gold-standard-industry-standard tools" If that was the case, then we probably would not have as much wonderful items that the world has gain from all of the great thinkers and creators throughout history.Have fun at the Rally!!!

[wta]

Wonderful opening post to a complex issue, I feel I’ve felt or touched your true self/soul as I read it. I sense a great depth of passion and wisdom in your struggle. I too wrestle as I'm sure most of us do with this very issue even today as I've shuffled through industry mags, read professional tutorials and watched commercially aligned advisors present what the formula for success is for today’s music and it's musicians. At the end of one of the longest days I've had in months I feel full, waddling out of a “all you can eat” buffet kind of full and as I read your post I sighed and smiled and quoted one of the wisest prophets of the modern era, "I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam" (Popeye). There is no substitution for authentic, organically produced artistic expression, it's been at the center of culture for as long as there has been culture and it's stayed at the center because it is as real as the apple we ate for lunch, as real as the sun that shone to grow that apple and as vital as the rain and earth is to see that apple become the masterpiece it became before I enjoyed it for lunch. I believe that that apple could never have come to be except that organic process was finely tuned and delicately balanced and so it is I find with the music I create. If my guitar is not in tune how can there be melody? If the drum is off beat how can there be rhythm? If the soul of the artist isn't organic and true how can the art have life? All are needed for the fruit to be enjoyed. Adding commerce to the equation is yet another ingredient that is just as vital as the earth is to the growth of that apple, we can wish it not to be so but that will never change truth of the organic process of creation and the experience of creation. Thank you Vikki for sharing your heart, it has warmed mine... wta

[geo]

Hi HB... as someone that considers himself in the "creative camp" I thought I would offer a counter point of view.....First I bow to your progress..... even in my short time here I've seen a vast improvement in your stuff..... my intention is not to debate the "correctness" of a particular approach.... I see it as a choice.... a personal choice.... each artist makes... consciously or not... about their art.... no right or wrong approach.... each artist is unique...I lack great musical skill.... no ear... have not come close to mastering one instrument... musical theory .... definately not modes ..... I took the lessons as a child but nothing took... until I started writing songs... that is my joy....creation. I've studied song structure.... chord progressions.... listened to the current 'ala's'..... but I use them as a reference..... to make my songs better..... current....I guess the difference is I don't want to write a great Alt Rock song that sounds like Band X..... I want to write a great Alt Rock song that Band X wants to record....Now this doesn't mean I won't write for a specific listings.... I have in the past and will continue to but stay away from "replacement" or "sound-a-like" request......Using your painter example.... yes he was asked to paint the ceiling.... but they didn't say.... "I want it to look like that new hot painter's stuff... that's all I'll consider" They let the artist create.... that's why they got him....I don't begrudge anyone who studies their "ala's" and presents Taxi with exactly what they desire.... more power to you and continued success.... I mean that most seriously....It's just some of us are dreamers.... we choose our own path.... tilt at windmills and have grand adventures..... write songs about obscure things in weird keys and then throw fits when it's returned (not so much now ).... it's our choice.... HB.... I've never read any of your post I disagreed with.... even your above thread bears great advice for those who choose a similar path.... just offering another way to look at it... Peace, Geo

[matthoggard]

Although Michelangelo was asked to paint the ceiling, the church administrators (a&r reps/producers) were very worried about the outcome. Much of what he painted was considered controversial. Thank God they didnt "drop him from the label" or "put on hold" hisIncredible work.Whether we like it or not. As artists we are still molded by certain rules and formulas. If the strings are out of tune then we stop and tune before we continue (unless your Kurdt Cobain).Creativity is still within a "box" of some sorts. If a mix is totally off enigineers still make sure its eq'd and all the levels are good. Creative and Commercial can go hand in hand. If you have created for a commercial reason you have still created. You are still the potter molding the clay and firing the kiln. VERY VERY GOOD POST VICKI!!!!!!We should all be just a little analytical and cynical. I think it makes our "art" more complete.M~

[hummingbird]

My point is... the idea that writing commercially limits your creativity... is in itself a limitation.I believe that one can be 100% creative, and 100% commercial, at the same time. It's not easy, it takes craft & knowledge & inspiration... but when I listen to the forwarded tracks in the "Forwards" section, I hear no lack of creativity at all.

[shakabrah]

I thought I wanted to be a commercial writer but as time went by I just didn't have what it takes to write for the listings posted.I'm so far outta da loop, it's not funny. For some writers, the listings are great, for me, not-so-great.Lisitings like:Radio Ready AAA/ALT Rock/Indie Pop Instrumentals - nahAlternative Country - don't even know what that isUptempo Dance.Electronica Songs w/vocs - nopeSports Intstrumentals - too lazySongs that Raise Social Awareness - gawdMusic for a Laxative Commercial - my gawd pt 2Songs for a Serial Killer Movie - I quitSo I decided to go with my heart and write a new solo project. It was a total grind but I just finished it. Just completing it was a success for me. 3-months later with good reviews and thousands of fans, I guess I made the right choice.But for my extremely narrow genre (Contemporary Hawaiian - about as narrow as you can get), I am nearing the peak. I don't play live so that means I get to keep writing and writing and writing ....And Thank God I don't chase the neon rainbow anymore. My motivation is different.But...... there IS one new TV Show I'd like to submit to but they haven't posted a listing yet..... Ed Bernero's Hawaii Five-0. We'll see

[geo]

Oct 5, 2008, 8:16am, shakabrah wrote:I thought I wanted to be a commercial writer but as time went by I just didn't have what it takes to write for the listings posted.I'm so far outta da loop, it's not funny. For some writers, the listings are great, for me, not-so-great.Lisitings like:Radio Ready AAA/ALT Rock/Indie Pop Instrumentals - nahAlternative Country - don't even know what that isUptempo Dance.Electronica Songs w/vocs - nopeSports Intstrumentals - too lazySongs that Raise Social Awareness - gawdMusic for a Laxative Commercial - my gawd pt 2Songs for a Serial Killer Movie - I quitSo I decided to go with my heart and write a new solo project. It was a total grind but I just finished it. Just completing it was a success for me. 3-months later with good reviews and thousands of fans, I guess I made the right choice.But for my extremely narrow genre (Contemporary Hawaiian - about as narrow as you can get), I am nearing the peak. I don't play live so that means I get to keep writing and writing and writing ....And Thank God I don't chase the neon rainbow anymore. My motivation is different.But...... there IS one new TV Show I'd like to submit to but they haven't posted a listing yet..... Ed Bernero's Hawaii Five-0. We'll see OMFG!!!!! Dude excuse the language but I'm on your MySpace site..... LOVE YOUR STUFF!!!! Very cool!!Peace, Geo

[geo]

Oct 5, 2008, 7:00am, hummingbird wrote:My point is... the idea that writing commercially limits your creativity... is in itself a limitation.I believe that one can be 100% creative, and 100% commercial, at the same time. It's not easy, it takes craft & knowledge & inspiration... but when I listen to the forwarded tracks in the "Forwards" section, I hear no lack of creativity at all. I totally agree... that is my point as well.... it's just that when we have this discussion sometimes hard lines are drawn between the two approaches when it's really one big blurry line.....Peace, Geo

[jchitty]

Oct 5, 2008, 7:00am, hummingbird wrote:My point is... the idea that writing commercially limits your creativity... is in itself a limitation.I believe that one can be 100% creative, and 100% commercial, at the same time. It's not easy, it takes craft & knowledge & inspiration... but when I listen to the forwarded tracks in the "Forwards" section, I hear no lack of creativity at all. I agree here. And I like to write it all, commercial or off the beaten path.