vocal techniques

[hummingbird]

Jul 17, 2008, 9:38am, mewman wrote:Ill this talk of technique takes a quick backseat to creativity and raw experience. I challenge anyone here who thinks I don't do creative things with my voice!!! You can think that understanding how your instrument works is a block, or you can choose to believe that developing your full potential will bring depth & creativity to your work. That being said, training isn't for everyone. It takes courage and determination to overcome issues, dig down deep and find the authentic voice. If one chooses to do the work. I'm not saying that everyone SHOULD study voice, I'm saying that, those who do, with the right teacher, discover things about themselves & their voice. If they are open to the work. It's the same process no matter what you do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a mentor along the path. If you go it alone, that's fine too. Let's just not decide for other people what should or shouldn't have value to them. In my own life (if you read my bio) the study of voice has brought me immeasurable growth, including the fact that I am sitting here writing music for film & television - something that was so far removed from my expectation that I am still in awe of what I do when I wake up every morning. Therefore, as I tell my students, the study of voice isn't just about singing. It's about living, it's about being an artist, it's about being awake and aware, and it's about understanding what it means to "fill in the form", and uplift oneself with the continued work to be present in the moment and open to inspiration.

[sgs4u]

I don't think anyone challenged you V, by implying that you don't do wonderfully creative things with your voice. I do know that Dave Walton is looking for challengers at the Rally... My 7 favorite singers are Lowell George, Ray Charles, James Brown, Stevie Wonder, my buddies David Steele and Bill Gaunce, and the queen of white soul, Bonnie Raitt. Not one of those voices sounds like a great deal of technique and study was incorporated into their recordings. They just sang their soulful butts off for decades. If they tried new techniques thru studying different methods, they were probably thankful for the time they spent learning. Some people get to the raw soul of their voice without any help at all. I'm not at all saying that technique shouldn't or doesn't matter. But it doesn't matter to ME, how you get there. Only that your singing make me want to turn up the volume, and look you up on Myspace. Everyone's choices matter, that's how we figure out how to get to the next level we wish to attain. So I kinda think Mewman and Hummingbird are agreeing, about not telling everyone that there is only ONE important method to learning to sing. Although I do have to give the nod to Mewman, that technique does take a backseat to creativity and raw experience. At least in my books.Studying a little technique hardly ever hurt anybody tho. Jul 17, 2008, 1:37pm, hummingbird wrote:Jul 17, 2008, 9:38am, mewman wrote:Ill this talk of technique takes a quick backseat to creativity and raw experience. I challenge anyone here who thinks I don't do creative things with my voice!!!

[jchitty]

Jul 17, 2008, 1:37pm, hummingbird wrote:Jul 17, 2008, 9:38am, mewman wrote:Ill this talk of technique takes a quick backseat to creativity and raw experience. I challenge anyone here who thinks I don't do creative things with my voice!!! You can think that understanding how your instrument works is a block, or you can choose to believe that developing your full potential will bring depth & creativity to your work. That being said, training isn't for everyone. It takes courage and determination to overcome issues, dig down deep and find the authentic voice. If one chooses to do the work. I'm not saying that everyone SHOULD study voice, I'm saying that, those who do, with the right teacher, discover things about themselves & their voice. If they are open to the work. It's the same process no matter what you do, there's absolutely nothing wrong with having a mentor along the path. If you go it alone, that's fine too. Let's just not decide for other people what should or shouldn't have value to them. In my own life (if you read my bio) the study of voice has brought me immeasurable growth, including the fact that I am sitting here writing music for film & television - something that was so far removed from my expectation that I am still in awe of what I do when I wake up every morning. Therefore, as I tell my students, the study of voice isn't just about singing. It's about living, it's about being an artist, it's about being awake and aware, and it's about understanding what it means to "fill in the form", and uplift oneself with the continued work to be present in the moment and open to inspiration. Hey, Vikki, does being older hamper someone who's never developed their voice though? I'm just curious. I'd like to sing on demoes to save money, but my voice just doesn't have any power behind it, and I think it's because I'm getting older of course. I do sing 'from that mask' and not from the throat, and I've taken a few voice lessons about two years ago, (for the first time in my life) but I still sound weak. Seems like when I was younger, my voice was a little more powerful. In your work with older adults, (if you have) have they ever discovered they were good singers?

[squids]

Agreeing with Steve here in some ways:It's been my experience that the listener doesn't usually care how a singer gets there, only that they get there. In my early days, people loved it when I was screamin' blues/rock/whatever. It didn't matter that TMJ made this painful for me and I developed some maladaptive behaviors to compensate for it, some of which I use to this day to my advantage. It didn't probably occur to them that it hurt then or that it hurts still for me to sing, due to asymmetry in my jaw and corrosive arthritis in the TMJ. What matters to them is that they're feeling something that brings them emotional feedback. I'm sure if they knew that I was hurting, they would change the way they feel about my singing, something I adamantly don't want. Whether we choose to model someone else's behavior or seek coaching, go the route of traditional academia to learn how to sing or learn on our own, the important thing is that we get there for ourselves, for our listeners and jes cuz, being human, we're curious to know where the limits lie. Bill G is a excellent example of a singer using voice damage for their own benefit. There're plenty others.....Springsteen, Tyler, etc. Although Tyler shelled out recently for the new node laser surgery and he sounds better than ever, imho. It doesn't bother me that Bill got there the hard way doing things that probably didn't prolong his voice. It would bother me if Bill didn't sing like Bill. If you know what I mean.I was actually gonna use him as an example in my earlier post but thought he might not appreciate me talking about him without asking first. But since you did......heh.

[hummingbird]

Jul 17, 2008, 2:31pm, jchitty wrote:Hey, Vikki, does being older hamper someone who's never developed their voice though? I'm just curious. I'd like to sing on demoes to save money, but my voice just doesn't have any power behind it, and I think it's because I'm getting older of course. I do sing 'from that mask' and not from the throat, and I've taken a few voice lessons about two years ago, (for the first time in my life) but I still sound weak. Seems like when I was younger, my voice was a little more powerful. In your work with older adults, (if you have) have they ever discovered they were good singers? I work with many people over 50 who present with weak or thin voices, sometimes even with vocal damage. In all cases, training makes a difference. My youngest student is 18 and my oldest is around 70, but most are over 40. There is no age limit to training the voice, assuming one is otherwise healthy. If there are issues, it takes longer to get results, but you do get results. Of course, the longer we've been around.. the more habits we have... that's why sometimes it takes a little longer. I myself didn't start training til my early 30s... and when I started I had about a one octave range that was extremely breathy & weak.H

[jchitty]

Jul 17, 2008, 2:42pm, hummingbird wrote:Jul 17, 2008, 2:31pm, jchitty wrote:Hey, Vikki, does being older hamper someone who's never developed their voice though? I'm just curious. I'd like to sing on demoes to save money, but my voice just doesn't have any power behind it, and I think it's because I'm getting older of course. I do sing 'from that mask' and not from the throat, and I've taken a few voice lessons about two years ago, (for the first time in my life) but I still sound weak. Seems like when I was younger, my voice was a little more powerful. In your work with older adults, (if you have) have they ever discovered they were good singers? I work with many people over 50 who present with weak or thin voices, sometimes even with vocal damage. In all cases, training makes a difference. My youngest student is 18 and my oldest is around 70, but most are over 40. There is no age limit to training the voice, assuming one is otherwise healthy. If there are issues, it takes longer to get results, but you do get results. Of course, the longer we've been around.. the more habits we have... that's why sometimes it takes a little longer. I myself didn't start training til my early 30s... and when I started I had about a one octave range that was extremely breathy & weak.HOkay, thanks, Vik....your post gives me a bit of hope.

[linziellen]

I've struggled with my voice for some time. Everything I was singing around the house (the oldies) I was also keeping under my hat. I thought people would laugh At band I do mainly covers, like KT Tunstall, Amy Macdonald, Pink -and I have this nasty habit of playing copy cat, but I can't sing that kind of song with my voice being what it is They tell me I need to sing up but I'm competing against two drummers, keyboard and guitar, sometimes two guitarists! It's actually getting me down a little because I can tell I'm straining my voice. Since I've been writing to fit my voice (as Squids mentioned a couple of weeks ago) I'm feeling much better. I don't know whether I'm using it properly, I probably don't look after it anywhere near as well as I should. I try to drink plenty and I sing all day (which might not be a good thing) but I can't help it when Otis is egging me on I hope I don't sound ignorant - just being honest! What I think I'm trying to say is that it seems a great shame to try and force a voice or even hide it away. I did it, I'm still doing it, I rarely share my music link with friends and family. I've no idea why that is because to me there's nothing better than the gift of song and music. My two and four year olds already have an amazing ear for rhythm I've gone round in a full circle!

[billg]

Daggone, Steve you and Nita are making me blush. . . I started singing at 16 because I had to support myself (i'm 57 now). I just never thought of taking lessons because I jumped right into singing every night to pay the rent & eat. My voice has just evolved into what it is from a lot use & it's really a lot tougher & stronger than it sounds. & unlike Nita singing has never been painful and whenever I would get hoarse Parke Davis Throat Discs would bring my voice back. I honestly don't think that I would have done as well making a living with my voice if I had stopped to think that I might be damaging it. It's certainly not something i would advise to someone who has or wants to maintain a "pretty" voice. That said, I wouldn't trade the life i've had just to be an old dude with a pleasant voice.So take your voice lessons & eat your vegetables kids! Oh, & don't drink or smoke or run with scissors!

[squids]

Jul 17, 2008, 3:06pm, linziellen wrote:I've struggled with my voice for some time. Everything I was singing around the house (the oldies) I was also keeping under my hat. I thought people would laugh At band I do mainly covers, like KT Tunstall, Amy Macdonald, Pink -and I have this nasty habit of playing copy cat, but I can't sing that kind of song with my voice being what it is They tell me I need to sing up but I'm competing against two drummers, keyboard and guitar, sometimes two guitarists! It's actually getting me down a little because I can tell I'm straining my voice. Since I've been writing to fit my voice (as Squids mentioned a couple of weeks ago) I'm feeling much better. I don't know whether I'm using it properly, I probably don't look after it anywhere near as well as I should. I try to drink plenty and I sing all day (which might not be a good thing) but I can't help it when Otis is egging me on I hope I don't sound ignorant - just being honest! What I think I'm trying to say is that it seems a great shame to try and force a voice or even hide it away. I did it, I'm still doing it, I rarely share my music link with friends and family. I've no idea why that is because to me there's nothing better than the gift of song and music. My two and four year olds already have an amazing ear for rhythm I've gone round in a full circle! I really dislike singing at home with other people around too. I think it has to do with my expectations. I learned in my formative years to practice in solitude; it helped me focus and take risks without worrying about someone poking fun at me. I think I do it now because I didn't want to encourage my kids in music, especially my daughter. I didn't think it was a good career choice for either one of them, chasing something that had an iffy chance of return. I never told them that though, they jes picked up on the fact that I didn't sing at home a lot nor did I (or do I still) talk about music much. However, it's come back to bite me in the ass when she expects to sing like a diva without practice, simply cuz she doesn't see me put any sweat equity into it. This mom thing, it's so complicated! As for the band.......as Emmylous Harris said before she quit rock......there's only so much room (in a room) for music. When the instruments are taking up all of it, there's no room left for the singer. I found it very discouraging myself to compete with electrified instruments (no fair!!) and that was one of the reasons I stopped touring. I couldn't hear myself think anymore, had to get my pitch using resonance in my chest (which is how I developed a strong chest voice) and frankly, found the whole idea exhausting after a while. Now, though, there's all sorts of monitor situations that can help you hear yourself and if the audience can't hear you, they'll let your band know. Then they can adjust. It's really NOT about who's the damn loudest, although it's tough to convince band boys of that sometimes. It really helps a lot to have a sound guy who loves your voice and is willing to put it out front. I made sure to place my mic a bit out in front so I could catch the speakers and between them and the monitors, it helped a little bit. I hope you find your way through this, I know it sucks. We were never designed to sing in this way and it at times feels like an impossible task to be heard over everything.

[ernstinen]

Jul 17, 2008, 2:38pm, squids wrote: There're plenty others.....Springsteen, Tyler, etc.I saw a Springsteen concert about 15 years ago here in L.A., and he was freakin' amazing! I heard the legend about LONG concerts with the E Street Band, but didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes!But what was the most incredible thing was that The Boss was giving it his all (as usual), and about 1 1/2 hours into the show, his voice was shot. He told the crowd they were going to take a break, and then play a second set.15 minutes later, he came back out and his voice was miraculously back to normal! I'll never forget that. What did he do in those 15 minutes? I know the band has a rule about no drugs and limited drinking, so what happened? Maybe he got a blood transfusion from Max Weinberg, but I doubt it, because he didn't become instantly boring. On the other hand, I saw John Fogerty a few months ago here at the new Nokia Theatre (SEE a concert there if you're ever in town), and the band was having problems with their monitors. I've seen a lot of Fogerty's recent shows on video, and he sings like he's 25 again. But that night, he couldn't hear himself and blew out his voice. He even apologized to the audience! What a cool guy. His guitar playing more than made up for it, though!My older sister has a college degree in vocal performance, and a Masters in Musicology from Northwestern. She can't STAND listening to Bono of U2 because "He sings WRONG!" --- I LOVE Bono --- he has so much passion and is such an inspirational singer to me. To each his own! BTW, in the early days The Beatles had a remedy for singing long hours in Hamburg (besides taking speed): Scotch & Milk. Yummy! Ern