Re: Avril's "Girlfriend" is a Ripoff of...

zircon · Post by **zircon** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:55 am

The law IS actually lenient to people who come up with a copyrighted work independently that happens to be very similar to another work. If a songwriter in Kansas writes something in 2006 that someone in New York wrote in 2004, the Kansas songwriter never heard the New Yorker's song, and the two never met/worked together, then the law won't punish the Kansas writer. In other words you shouldn't be too worried about accidental plagiarism; the law acknowledges multiple people can come up with the same creative idea especially given that there are a limited number of notes/chords out there.That being said, there's also a provision that says *even* if the evidence suggested the two songwriters never met, if the songs are too similar to ever happen by coincedence, that can be grounds for infringement.

gitarrero · Post by **gitarrero** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:59 am

Quote:Of course, I'm not sure how closely my definition matches up with the legal definition, but blatant copying is definitely something I try to avoid. There are still lots of combinations out there! (I hope). DaveI agree - I just was told (and you can see it in several cases) that the decision if a song is a plagiat or not is.... hard to define (legaly).to me, it sounds close too - but I don't think that avril will get in serious trouble / an infridement process.btw: in germany lives a very famous and successfull writer/producer - dieter bohlen (you may remember - he used to be one half of the duo "modern talking"). anyway, he *really* ripped of a lot of his songs, and several times they (e.g. he and the publ. companies) made an agreement that the right holder gets a pile of money (I don't know how much exactly).I don't know why he (dieter) did that - someone in his possition easily could hire some writers, etc. hes kind of a a**hole anyway martin

matto · Post by **matto** » Sun May 06, 2007 8:34 am

Quote:I dunno, her rip of the Rubinoos is really quite obvious. It's way more than similar.....the chorus line is flagrant plagar-baby! And anyone living in Los Angeles should know that it's back-stab ripoff land. Maybe, but most people living here wouldn't be stupid enough to rip off a published and fairly well-known song on purpose. Not with the managers, their lawyers, the publishers, their lawyers, and the label an its lawyer watching over everything. Although I personally wouldn't call this song plagiarism, I think it's close enough to where an infringement case might at least have some merit...and I don't think anybody would put themselves voluntarily in such a situation. It's not like this is an unknown, unpublished song where they could claim they came up with the idea first...

grandmatarkin · Post by **grandmatarkin** » Sun May 06, 2007 10:03 am

@ MartinI don't doubt that he's an a**hole , but he probably ripped songs as opposed to hiring writers because at least with the ripped songs, they have a proven track record. If it worked once as a hit, it'll work again, I suppose. Someone posted a link a while ago... I think it was on these forums, to a list of all the infringement cases of the past 3 decades or so. It was a really interesting read. I'll try to dig it up. One I found particularily amusing is the case of "How Deep is Your Love" (Bee Gees). Apparently someone wrote this melody before, and decided sued the beards off them. So, they played this songwriter's melody in court (just the melody I think) and (Andy?) Gibb identified it on the stand as "How Deep Is Your Love". Whoops! Anyhoo, I think that's how it went down.

hookstownbrown · Post by **hookstownbrown** » Tue May 08, 2007 7:05 pm

You can bet there is a pending lawsuit, though.I guarantee an attorney somewhere has locked onto this one.With the money involved, lawsuits are a part of the landscape.A working songwriter friend of mine once admitted...Anytime there is a hit song, there is a followup of infringement lawsuits.Lawsuits are an unfortunate residual of the business.That's one reason why publishers are so afraid of songs using sampled material.

kouly · Post by **kouly** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:12 am

Quote:"I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" by the RubinoosI thought so! Maybe she thought 1979 is too long ago for anyone to remember...listen to the chorus.here ya go:http://www.rubinoos.com/boyfriend.mp3or ... ubinoosNot to mention the Hey (Hey) You (You) - Rolling Stones Get off of My Cloud ?I thought I had heard it b4. Avril ripped them off totally. Well, fellow TAXI jury....is she guilty as charged????This is what happens when you get bored.

jchitty · Post by **jchitty** » Thu May 10, 2007 2:30 pm

I don't think anyway intentionally sets out to rip off another person's work. You never know what the subconcious mind will do....you just hope you have an original melody. I too ask family and friends if my melody sounds like anyone's else's.....I'm very careful to craft melodies that I hope are truly mine, but problems can occur because 'nothing is new out there anymore', especially in this day of mass media....we are influenced by everything out there. And being that lawyers will sue for anything, (similar wording in lyrics, melody might remind you of another song) it's scary sometimes being a songwriter if you're truly striving to write original stuff. I guess you just do the best you can and hope to God you're not inadvertently mimicking someone's work.....I think in court of law, 'intent' is the operative word....you have to prove intent in a case like this.Who'd want to rip off another person's work anyway? If you're an artist or songwriter, you want to be recognized for something that no one's ever written before you unless you're purely in it for the money. And no one wants a nasty lawsuit either.

jchitty · Post by **jchitty** » Thu May 10, 2007 2:42 pm

Ooops, make that 'anyone.' Me and my corrections.

hookstownbrown · Post by **hookstownbrown** » Thu May 10, 2007 7:54 pm

That's the entire angle, Chits. It's rarely intentional that a melody or any other song component is copied, but so many people out there are looking to make a buck from someone else's hard work... Intentional or not, the possibility of two people in the world coming up with a similar idea is not all that remote. Lawsuits appear out of nowhere claiming all sorts of derivative infringements.I pride myself on coming up with fresh ideas. It's my thing and always has been. But my fresh idea could have also been thought up by someone else in another part of the world at a similar or previous time -- We're also subject to infringements from eons ago. It sucks, but it's a part of the business.I just take it in stride. Whatever... I'll deal with it when the time comes...I think of being sued as a benchmark. When I get sued, I'll know that I have finally made the bigtime...

jchitty · Post by **jchitty** » Fri May 11, 2007 1:59 am

I hear ya, Hook. I've even heard people say that getting sued is a good problem to have.....means you've arrived. Speaking of people coming up with the same idea in two remote parts of the world, I came up with what I thought was a very original title to my song. To me, it was unique. I thought no one could write something like that....LOL. I usually google titles of my songs to make sure I've got something as fresh as possible and that no one else has taken my title. Lo and behold, someone already had a title just like mine, and my idea was really out there, not a title like "I Love You" or something. I know that titles are not subject to copyright law, but still, I was bummed. They say that you can't sue over a title, but I did read an article that said some lawyers have done just that.....this is why I'll change my titles if I find an EXACT title like mine on the internet. It's probably a waste of time though....who's to say that when I write my songs, someone won't be filing a copyright on a title just like mine at the exact time...I guess that's called serendipity.