PRO outside of USA?

[OwenGrech]

Hello everyone, hope you are all ok:)

I just joined Taxi last week and here is my first post so please forgive my noob question

I sent this question to Michael on yesterday's stream and his reply was very helpful but he also suggested that I take your opinion here in the forum as well.......

I was wondering if I should
1) Open an account with a PRO even though I know I shouldn't be registering any songs
2) If 1 is yes, would it be wise to open an account with an American PRO although I live in Malta (Europe) since Michael mentioned that approx about 70 - 80% of Taxi's listings are American based. He also mentioned that European PROs can use ASCAP or BMI to take care of deals based in the USA but it can take longer for payments to arrive ect ect

I would like to know if maybe some of you who also hail from Europe and are more experienced can share their wisdom

Thanks in advance and hope to get to know you all !

Owen

[OwenGrech]

Hello everyone, hope you are all ok:)

Owen, I am not sure it is wise, but as a German I just opened an account with BMI. Because I don't have any placements yet, I cannot tell you about what the trouble with collecting money could be. But GEMA would have charged me 100 euros one-off and 50 more per year - BMI is for free! Also, I can now submit to those listings which are North American PROs, only.

And, yes, you need to sign up to a PRO to get contracts. Took only a few days with BMI to get it all up and running.

Tom

Thank you for your reply Tom - I wasn't sure about needing an account with a PRO before you get your first contracts so thanks for that!
I am in the same boat re placements, just submitted my first 2 tracks so I know I am a long way far from the money at this stage
Heard a lot of things about BMI so I will definitely consider them.

Thanks for all the help!

Owen

[OwenGrech]

Hi, and the answer to (1) is easy ... Yes! If you get any contract offers from music libraries they'll expect you already have a PRO, and will want to know its name and the CAE/IPI number that they assign to you.

(2) There are several things to consider here...
- You can join any PRO you think is a good fit (but just one).
- Although Taxi listings might be primarily from US libraries that doesn't mean those library's clients are in the US, so you could still end up with placements anywhere else in the world (including your own country).
- In the long-term you might begin submitting directly to libraries and not via Taxi listings.
- If you join a PRO in your own country it might take a while for royalties from any other country to find their way back to your PRO but at least they'll pay you in local currency.
- If you were to join a US PRO, then the royalties from US broadcasts would probably get there somewhat faster but royalties from placements in other countries probably won't be any faster.
- You'd need to set up some way for a PRO in another country to pay you (ought to be easy but it isn't always).

Thanks so much for your detailed reply! Great points to consider and like I said to Tom, I didn't know you need to have an account before getting the first contract so thanks for that clarification!

take care
Owen

[Kolstad]

I really dont think it is neccesary to double register with American PROs as a European. PROs work together on a global scale, and have everything set up. For example, Im with KODA in Denmark, and they work with ASCAP in the US. So if I sign anything with an American publisher, the American publisher can register the work online with KODA in english, or they can just register it with ASCAP in the US, which then coordinates with KODA.

Some have made the claim that backend pays out faster, if you double register, but I can’t confirm this. In this digital age, data really doesn’t move slower because of national borders.

[OwenGrech]

I really dont think it is neccesary to double register with American PROs as a European. PROs work together on a global scale, and have everything set up. For example, Im with KODA in Denmark, and they work with ASCAP in the US. So if I sign anything with an American publisher, the American publisher can register the work online with KODA in english, or they can just register it with ASCAP in the US, which then coordinates with KODA.

Some have made the claim that backend pays out faster, if you double register, but I can’t confirm this. In this digital age, data really doesn’t move slower because of national borders.

Thank you so much for your reply Kolstad. I wasn't thinking of double registering to be honest but rather do one registration with an American PRO instead of a European one but you brought up an interesting point re the backend cause if that causes the cheques to be relatively in time then it might make more sense to register locally.

Rgds,
Owen

[Kolstad]

I really dont think it is neccesary to double register with American PROs as a European.

I thought that was impossible.

No, it's possible. But probably also pointless

[Kolstad]

I really dont think it is neccesary to double register with American PROs as a European. PROs work together on a global scale, and have everything set up. For example, Im with KODA in Denmark, and they work with ASCAP in the US. So if I sign anything with an American publisher, the American publisher can register the work online with KODA in english, or they can just register it with ASCAP in the US, which then coordinates with KODA.

Some have made the claim that backend pays out faster, if you double register, but I can’t confirm this. In this digital age, data really doesn’t move slower because of national borders.

Thank you so much for your reply Kolstad. I wasn't thinking of double registering to be honest but rather do one registration with an American PRO instead of a European one but you brought up an interesting point re the backend cause if that causes the cheques to be relatively in time then it might make more sense to register locally.

Rgds,
Owen

You may want to reconsider that, as you probably would like to apply the laws from the country where you live. If you register in the US only, and publish your work there first, you need to register your works at the US copyright office and use american lawyers, if anything comes up. Not saying it would be a problem, but it can get complicated and very expensive for you, if you at some point need legal advice or representation.

Depending on your country of residence, I actually think it's a lot better to use your local PRO. As noted, everything is set up to work internationally with the PRO's.

[OwenGrech]

I really dont think it is neccesary to double register with American PROs as a European. PROs work together on a global scale, and have everything set up. For example, Im with KODA in Denmark, and they work with ASCAP in the US. So if I sign anything with an American publisher, the American publisher can register the work online with KODA in english, or they can just register it with ASCAP in the US, which then coordinates with KODA.

Some have made the claim that backend pays out faster, if you double register, but I can’t confirm this. In this digital age, data really doesn’t move slower because of national borders.

Thank you so much for your reply Kolstad. I wasn't thinking of double registering to be honest but rather do one registration with an American PRO instead of a European one but you brought up an interesting point re the backend cause if that causes the cheques to be relatively in time then it might make more sense to register locally.

Rgds,
Owen

You may want to reconsider that, as you probably would like to apply the laws from the country where you live. If you register in the US only, and publish your work there first, you need to register your works at the US copyright office and use american lawyers, if anything comes up. Not saying it would be a problem, but it can get complicated and very expensive for you, if you at some point need legal advice or representation.

Depending on your country of residence, I actually think it's a lot better to use your local PRO. As noted, everything is set up to work internationally with the PRO's.

Thanks again Kolstad! I had not even thought about the legal situation but that is definitely a headache I would want to avoid!
I think I better check with my local PRO first then.

Thanks again

owen

[AudiniAudio]

I joined BMI though I'm in Indonesia. I got mudic placed in a documentary on NHK. I heard my music on TV right in my living room and my wife and I were so happy. Unfortunately BMI has never paid me. I've tried to work it out several times on their site and it just says denied, denied, denied for those tracks. Don't know why. I don't understand wht not. Maybe because America doesn't honor performing rights in Indonesia, perhaps because of the blatant stealing of American movies illegally copied to DVD. Don't care. Just want my money.

[Kolstad]

I joined BMI though I'm in Indonesia. I got mudic placed in a documentary on NHK. I heard my music on TV right in my living room and my wife and I were so happy. Unfortunately BMI has never paid me. I've tried to work it out several times on their site and it just says denied, denied, denied for those tracks. Don't know why. I don't understand wht not. Maybe because America doesn't honor performing rights in Indonesia, perhaps because of the blatant stealing of American movies illegally copied to DVD. Don't care. Just want my money.

I’m not in the US, but when I google it, NHK is from Japan, is that right? You should also have gotten a cut of the sync fee and master use from your publisher (unless you've signed a very bad deal). Why don't you ask your publisher about the placement? Also, it can take up to 2 years for you to receive payment, so just get your deal clarified and you should be good.

Indonesia joined the Berne Convention in 1958, so there should be no issues about recognizing your copyright in the US nor EU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention