Pushing Air for Realistic VI Sounds-UPDATE

[digital1]

Hey everyone,

Both Dean Krippaenhne and Ronan Chris Murphy talked at the Rally about recording midi instruments running through an amplifier for more realistic sound. I'm trying to figure out if I can actually do this with the equipment I have.

I have Logic X with an original Duet interface (not the new Duet 2). No mixing board. Is there way to record the midi track and then send it out to my mic'd guitar amplifier for recording?

I've thought of running a guitar cable from the headphone jack to the amp, but don't want to blow anything up.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but it seems like I need some other way to get the sound out.

Thanks in advance!

Jerry

[ochaim]

I've been meaning to try this too, Jerry!

I'm not familiar with the Duet but I think the main thing is, however you send the signal to the amp, to keep monitoring off on the record track to prevent feedback and things potentially blowing up.

I'm not sure if the signal from the headphone jack is appropriate, but I think it's worth a try. I remember Ronan mentioning a gadget that that will turn the signal from the audio interface into the same type of signal that comes out of a guitar, some kind of DI box. So the type of signal you send to the amp may have some bearing on how it gets processed etc.

I'm thinking, solo the track you want to reamp, arm the recording track and turn off monitoring, start recording and slowly turn up volume (either in Logic and/or headphone volume) to see if the signal is coming out of the amp and being recorded.

Does that make sense?

[LamarPecorino]

Assuming that your interface has main audio outs for connecting to monitor speakers, I would use one of those outputs rather than the headphone outputs. The main outputs should be line level, so it won't overdrive the amp input. If you are going to do a lot of this, I would suggest investing in a 1/4" patch bay. It will make your life much easier. Hope this helps and good luck!

[digital1]

Thanks, Owen and Lamar.

After digging through the manual for the Duet, I found that its software allows you to choose between sending the output to monitors or to an instrument amp. When you choose instrument amp, the volume is fixed (so as to not overload the amp, I presume). I'm sure I'll have to watch the monitoring with this setup as you suggested, Owen.

When I get time to pull things apart and set up the amp and mic, I'll let you know how it sounds.

Thanks again, guys!

Jerry

[Kolstad]

You can also try to reamp the VI through guitar amps, or just cabs, in an ampmodeller - in the box.

This way you dont need to convert (da/ad) the signal, as it stays itb all the time. Not exactly the same, but you can try it and see how it works in the mix. Guitar Rig, Amplitube and many others have some good sounding stuff.

But for otb reamping, this may be what you're looking for http://www.radialeng.com/jcr.php

[digital1]

Thanks for the ideas, Kolstad. I've tried a bit of the itb method, and it's really cool. Dean and Ronan said that pushing air through an actual amp adds a very realistic dimension to the track. I'm sure one of them mentioned that Radial box, now that I remember. I'll check it out. Thanks!

Jerry

[mazz]

Keep in mind that you don't have to abandon your original sound. You could blend the recorded sound in with the original VI sound. The only thing you have to pay attention to (and you'd have to do this if you planned on using only the recorded sound) is the recorded sound will be delayed by the amount of samples your playback and recording buffers are set to.

Just check those buffer settings, your DAW manual should tell you how to do so, and move the track forward in time (drag to the left) by that amount of samples and everything should line up perfectly.

One more thing: I've been recording my own simple hand percussion parts and I've even bought a decent crash/ride cymbal just for some textural parts. Some editing is required (when I'm playing for sure!) but the sound of even a small amount of air in the room adds some extra life to the track for some reason. You don't need a super fancy mic or a super great sounding room, you could do it in a closet if you wanted to. Percussion is pretty forgiving if you don't set your levels super hot.

Good luck!

Mazz

[digital1]

Mazz, thanks for the info on the blending and also the buffer issue. I'll check out both of those when I set this up.

I'm planning on adding some live percussion in the near future. That was one of the big takeaways for me at the Rally this year, at least from the break-out sessions I attended. Everyone was pretty enthused about the results you get by adding at least one live instrument.

Thanks again for the info!

Jerry

[digital1]

OK, I got the re-amping to work with the Duet in Logic X. However, I'm getting static out of the amp every time I plug-in the output line from the Duet. It's not hum, but a steady static that won't go away until I disconnect the Duet from the amp. The static records along with the VI on the audio track.

Any ideas? The tone of the VI electric piano sounded a bit warmer through the amp, so I can see how this could be a valuable trick to use.

Thanks in advance for any input!

Jerry

[Len911]

OK, I got the re-amping to work with the Duet in Logic X. However, I'm getting static out of the amp every time I plug-in the output line from the Duet. It's not hum, but a steady static that won't go away until I disconnect the Duet from the amp. The static records along with the VI on the audio track.

Any ideas? The tone of the VI electric piano sounded a bit warmer through the amp, so I can see how this could be a valuable trick to use.

Thanks in advance for any input!

Jerry

There are probably a few things you can do to troubleshoot and narrow down the problem. 1) with the duet line out to amp line in and amp out to speakers is the static present? If not that eliminates path up until the output of the amp. If yes, it means the problem is before the output. 2) depending on what you discovered in step one, first I would make sure that the cable connections were seated properly maybe try a different cable. Next I would check the specs on the ins and outs (line level) for both the duet and amp. 3) things might be simpler if you have another source or amp to check the duet with 4) you might try using a different usb port, is there a power plug to the duet that may need to be plugged in to increase the usb power in the duet?? Is there any duet software you might adjust levels to provide a more optimimum signal or sample size?? That should be enough to get started.