Question For You EZDrummer Users

[ChipD]

So, based on feedback that I got in this forum and my own views of YouTube demos from the various software providers, I decide to buy EZDrummer. I added the Rock Solid midi library and the POP EZX is due to be delivered today.

I'm liking it so far but have some questions...

When you guys put together EZ Drummer drum tracks for a song, do you tend to stick with a single "Groove" and select variations and fills associated with that Groove?

Or do you mix and match Grooves from within the selected library?

OR do you mix and match Grooves from different EZX's/libraries?

Do you only use what EZ Drummer provides or do you occasionally input in your own drum hits/fills/beats?

I was experimenting with mixing Grooves from the Rock Solid library with the library that came with EZDrummer and wasn't pleased with the results. I thought it would take a lot of tweaking velocities to even come close to making it work. But perhaps some of you put that effort in. I can understand getting the music to match what is in your head, regardless of the effort necessasry.

I'm looking forward to hearing how you guys do it!

[Kolstad]

It does take a lot of work to make it work for me.

I tend to find the groove first, then get a kit that sounds like it could be tweaked right, and then start editing. I usually start out from the presets, then overdub my edits to suit the project I'm working with, especially to lock with the bass. Almost never use the room mic from EZ drummer, though (I put a third party convolution reverb on). I tend to pull the master velocity quite a bit down as well (works well with the transient designer in Izotope Alloy 2, to get the kick to "thud" and the snare to "smack" smoother).

If you can get a drummer in to play, or collaborate with one, I'm sure that'll beat working from presets every time. But, simple tricks like playing your own hihat and blend that in, could do wonders. I also often use parallel compression to humanize programmed drums further (double the track, compress the hell out of the duplicate, turn it down and mix in to taste, little goes a long way).

[matto]

I don't use EZD but in Addictive Drums and Session Drummer there are variations to each groove, e.g. busier/less busy hats, closed/half/open hats, ride, more or fewer ghost notes etc...the type of variations a real drummer would typically deploy over the course of your average 3 1/2 minute song. Stringing these variations of the same groove together to get a flow going usually works pretty well. Trying to mix and match entirely different grooves...well, you can mix them but it's unlikely they would match well .

Once you have a basic flow/form and find some matching fills, there is definitely a lot of editing involved to get a realistic flow. Matching velocities, adding/deleting individual hits, simplifying parts that are too busy, adding ghost notes to increase intensity, nudging hits in time to make them "feel" right etc etc...
Remember real drummers don't copy/paste , so if you create a track via copy/paste you need to go in and add some of the subtle variations a real drummer would naturally play over the course of, say, a 16 bar verse.

If you're at a loss for what these are, go see a band in the style of your choice at a local venue and observe the drummer. I find this much more useful than just listening to drum tracks, because when you're back home working on your track you will be able to visualize and imitate what the drummer did.

It's important to realize that if realism is your goal, the tools will provide you with a great starting point that will put you miles ahead of having to play/program each hit from scratch, but you will still have to put in the time and care to put together the proper "flow" a real performace would have.

matto

[ChipD]

Thank you Magne and Matt for sharing your experience. It's very insightful!

In the pre-computer recording days (and really up until now, although the last few years I've worked mostly with a living, breathing drummer), I've always programmed a drum machine from scratch, entering each hit. It would take me about 2 hours per 3-1/2 minute song.

With EZDrummer, it seems I will be able to shave time off of that, but it seems that I will still need to do tweaking as you guys do. It's so relieving that I'm not alone in refusing to accept a stock beat if I have something else in mind!

My primary instrument is guitar, so by the time I noodle through all the guitar parts of a song, a drum beat and fills are already in my head. However, as I try to write more songs, eventually getting up to 100 per year I hope, I can see myself occasionally starting with a stock beat, writing the guitar line by playing along with the beat, then tweaking the drums as needed. It opens up a new way of writing to complement the way I'm used to writing, so that's always good creatively.

Thanks again, guys! Really appreciate you taking the time to share!

[matto]

Better tools will tend to lead to one of two results (or maybe a combination of both): less time spent, or a better sounding product. I tend to be more interested in the latter...

But you're completely right that starting with a cool (preset) beat may lead you to coming up with entirely new musical ideas you'd never come up with by just 'noodling' on your guitar.

In fact if you're interested in coming up with a wide variety of music, then a wide variety of approaches to writing is definitely a good way to go...

Best of luck with your EZD explorations...

[mojobone]

Something like EZPlayer can be a big help, cuz it lets you mix ride/hat/kick/snare patterns from different grooves. (it doesn't always work, but sometimes you get magic) Also, check out Groove Monkee; their grooves are available tweaked and mapped for many popular drum VIs. I generally don't use the prefab grooves for much more than a metronome, or in styles that I'm less proficient with, as a drummer. (feels weird to say that I'm a drummer, since I started gigging on traps, the first week of January) Metal is kinda tough for instance, since I don't have a double kick pedal.

There are also some MIDI plugins that can compress/expand velocities, and your DAW may provide this as well; it can help with shoehorning third party grooves into your EZDrummer sessions.

[playagibson]

You can splice grooves together with the loops.
Also when you open the midi groove in the sample editor you can mute or add parts to a loop to change the
drum part without compromising the natural flow of the part.
Often there are parts of a four bar pattern where you would like to insert a riff.
That's where you can take a drum roll pattern from the same category and cut it to fit.
I do it all the time.
It gets easier over time.
video tutorials are a must to get started and there are tons out there.

[andygabrys]

Something like EZPlayer can be a big help, cuz it lets you mix ride/hat/kick/snare patterns from different grooves. (it doesn't always work, but sometimes you get magic) Also, check out Groove Monkee; their grooves are available tweaked and mapped for many popular drum VIs. I generally don't use the prefab grooves for much more than a metronome, or in styles that I'm less proficient with, as a drummer. (feels weird to say that I'm a drummer, since I started gigging on traps, the first week of January) Metal is kinda tough for instance, since I don't have a double kick pedal.

There are also some MIDI plugins that can compress/expand velocities, and your DAW may provide this as well; it can help with shoehorning third party grooves into your EZDrummer sessions.

EZplayer is cool. nice for converting loops between formats (if you have BFD and you have a lot of stuff that is made for EZdrummer or Superior Drummer). But honestly, I am not sure its worth paying full price for. I got it bundled with some Ocean Way drum stuff.

Oddgrooves has some good stuff too. http://www.oddgrooves.com/

[mazz]

Thanks for the heads up on odd grooves. Our friend Andy Kotz is featured on there! Cool!

Any other midi groove vendors out there?

[crs7string]

Platinum Samples has some nice sets available:

https://www.platinumsamples.com/index.php

Many are available in multiple formats. (Addictive Drums, Superior Drummer etc.)


You can never have too many options for drum loops and grooves.


Chuck