Re: A Legal Way to Steal ideas??

mazz · Post by **mazz** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:26 am

No I don't think.I doubt smart established artists would open themselves up to that kind of potential litigation. I bet their record contract stiplulates that the artist is responsible for the originality of the music and thus the company is immune to any lawsuits that may arise from potential plagarism. I know film composers have to agree to that all the time. Artists have had to conted with proving authorship of songs many times over the years. Michael Jackson was in court years ago proving he was the original author of one of his songs by playing work tapes in the courtroom. A guitar part in a song is not a part of the underlying song. It could be (and has been) argued that if that part adds substantially to the "hookiness" of the song that it might warrant a writer's credit. I don't know the legal outcome of that case.There's an old story about session musicians being brought in to play on a Steely Dan session. They played on the session and were very excited that they were going to be on the next Steely Dan album (I'm sure they were paid well). Well, it turns out, Steely Dan could only get the drummer they wanted for that song on that day so they threw away all the other tracks except the drum tracks and brought in other cats to play along with them later.I'm not sure if you've been to a TAXI Road Rally or not but it really opened my eyes the first time I attended in 2004. The "stars" and industry big wigs that were on panels, etc., were pretty much regular people and pretty darn nice regular people at that. It really busted open my preconceptions that the music industry was just a bunch of sharks and a-holes trying to steal my music. The real players in the business are professionals and wouldn't jeopardize their jobs and careers on a plagarist. That's why TAXI is such a good thing. Can you say "no unsolicited material accepted"?TAXI wouldn't be able to stay in business if word got out that their listing clients were stealing TAXI members' music. TAXI screens their listing clients pretty heavily before accepting listings from them. I think TAXI probably wants to be around for a long time as wellMazz

hummingbird · Post by **hummingbird** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:03 am

Quote:I knew a huge major artist who used to use good local bands/ musicians to hash out ideas on his songs in his studio. He would then take all those ideas/parts and then hire studio cats to record those parts, on his records, leaving the local bands/musicians in the dust. He would have an endless supply of ideas/parts and the local cats would have delusions of grandeau, working and rubbing elbows with the major artist!Nice, huh?Anyway....it got me to thinking. I bet A LOT of established and upcoming artists steal from internet web sites, especially those of the unknown songwriter, musician, or band.99% of them will never make it anyway, so why not steal their ideas, changing a melody or lyric here and there, and thereby, making it THEIRS?The unknown artist, in his/hers quest for fame & fortune, leaves themselves WIDE open for musical online thievery! Your nice little site, showcasing your best tunes, are probably being stolen. Maybe someone takes 3-4 dff unknown artist's songs and puts parts of them together for one song! Kinda like Dr. Frankenstein raiding his local graveyard for useable body parts! You like that raspy breathy vocal of certain vowels from an unknown? Steal it!You like the way a writer phrases and paints emotions? Steal it!You like that guitar lick in the verse? Steal it! Use it in a chorus!I bet my hapless reputation that this happens....and happens a lot!You think??You think a major artist has time to sift through all the crap on the internet to find something they can steal? It would be easier for them to call their publisher or label & have the staff writer(s) come over, sit down over coffee and write a couple songs.

arkjack · Post by **arkjack** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:28 am

but what if the staff writer is siphoning off the internet?? then putting together stuff for the artist.... can you copyright a twelve bar blues song.... or a changes song? those are all variations on chord progressions and melodies that have timeless feel and appeal.... who actually owns it?ArkJack

Casey H · Post by **Casey H** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:40 am

Quote:You think a major artist has time to sift through all the crap on the internet to find something they can steal? It would be easier for them to call their publisher or label & have the staff writer(s) come over, sit down over coffee and write a couple songs. Darn, Vikki... I steal from you all the time!!! Oh, I forgot I am NOT a major artist and apparently have way too much time on my hands... Casey

mazz · Post by **mazz** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:42 am

I doubt that up and coming artists have that much time on their hands. If they are truly breaking, they're too busy touring, recording, writing and hopefully, sleeping, to spend time ripping off unpublished artists.Also, it's been established that a series of chords cannot be copyrighted. If that were the case, there'd only be about 500 or fewer songs copyrighted since the invention of copyright. Can you imagine a world with only one blues song?While I think I understand where you are coming from and agree that everything I hear influences my writing, I think the energy you're spending on worrying about this could be better spent perfecting your songs and getting them copyrighted. If you choose to not put them on BJ, MySpace, etc., then that's your choice and potentially our loss since we can't be influenced by your genius Maybe some day something will happen to make me change my mind but until then, I respectfully disagree with you.Mazz

mazz · Post by **mazz** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:58 am

One of the requests that came through from Harpo early this year was to "write something that's close to this but don't rip it off". It happens all the time, I know film composers are faced with this often. If you put the example piece next to mine you'd hear definite similarities in style, production, and yes, a few chords, but I don't think I ripped it off and I don't think you would think so either. I'm sure you know that being a professional songwriter/composer is sometimes the art/craft of finding the essence of the style that the client is looking for, yes that's what TAXI and the business wants us to do as professionals. If one is trying to be an artist with their own voice, then that is a much different road to go down, IMO. Of course, none of us have any control over someone else wanting to slap us with a lawsuit but I refuse to let that stop me from writing because I don't knowingly rip people off.I think we're on the same page, or at least in the same library!

edteja · Post by **edteja** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:59 am

Shak,I am not clear on your take on this. Are you saying that sidways composing (deliberately starting with someone else's idea) is wrong, good, or simply a fact of life? And what is the alternative to showing your unpublished material around? I tried storing songs under my bed, but the A&R people complained that it was too dark to read the lyrics.I suppose since the machines are putting us out of work next week that it doesn't really matter anyway. But then maybe there is a song in that. (Sorry, bad habit)

jeffe · Post by **jeffe** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:40 am

Where do you draw the line between artists influencing your music and stealing off them?

arkjack · Post by **arkjack** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:50 am

Personally.... two things....1. When I listen to artists mentioned in the taxi listings I only go through a barage of 30 second clips from itunes or their websites, and that is always done hours or days before I go to the studio to write and create. I try not to listen to music and then write in the same session. In my prelim listening I try to make mental notes about all the sounds and techniques and instruments, etc I hear.... and then later go to work on it. (and don't forget, unlike mrholmes, my batting record with taxi pitches is 000.00000.)2. I have adopted a policy to limit the availability of songs I post on the web. I actually have had the experience of someone taking my ideas, rearranging them, and then using them as their own..... I would like to believe that it doesn't happen, but as a result of that experience, I like to err on the side of caution and be protective. I have noticed that known writers are the same way.... they don't post all their ideas out there.... they only post their songs that they are sure are finished and ready for pitching.....I am starting to think about my summer gigs and came up with an idea to do songs by songwriters, instead of covers of artists.... sometimes one in the same, but try to make it an educational show for the audience to tell them even though they recognize this song XYZ as it was released by ABC band.... it was written by Joe Blo.... who also wrote blah ...and blah.... (anyway thats the idea.....)So I got a hold of a recording of a song by Jo Blo that was in a demo stage (Jo Blo is very well known top Nashville writer).... and is just a great song..... that I want to add to repetoire... so I emailed Jo and asked if would be OK to add it to my live sets..... the reply was, please don't there is a hold on it for ABC to record it for their next release... after the release, it'll be OK.... but if you otherwise tried to find this song right now I don't think you could.... they are just as protective, albeit for a little bit different reason.... but similar to protecting ideas...(I gotta stop..... my fingers are out of breath.....)ArkJack

Casey H · Post by **Casey H** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:30 pm

Quote:If you post songs that are not recorded by bonafide recording artists, you REALLY risk your stuff being ripped off. Of course, back in the Beatle's day, everyone ripped everyone off to death. When they debued their "Beatle cut" hair, every friggin band copied them. Same with the suits. Then the Naru jackets....sh!t look at the Beach Boys when they dressed hippie...Point is....watch out.There nothing new in rock n roll as they say. I don't see anything to worry about. Everyone is influenced by everyone. If I'm lucky, maybe someone will become successful and say, "Casey was one of my influences. I heard songs like What a World and Adrenaline and wanted to be able to write like that." Casey