Re: How do I begin songwriting

[coachdebra]

OK - I tried to post this on the original thread - it's completely buggy and won't show up. So, here's my response:

it would seem that my forum pages are bugged. it showed this topic as new when it now states it is months old with 4 pages of invisable posts ohwell the suggestions are there anyone anyway

It's not just you - I think this whole thread is buggy.

On the other hand, when I write the music, I tend to break things down into smaller chunks: I often sit at the piano or computer and figure out the emotion or groove first, then the melody, then the harmony, or sometimes vice versa, then the instrumentation, and it all grows bit by bit. And, I don't usually start comparing my work to Sondheim's or Jason Robert Brown's until the music is getting closer to completion.

First, I'd recommend approaching lyrics the same way you're approaching music.

• breaking it down into smaller parts

• and not comparing it to the masters until it's closer to completion

You might get some ideas from my blog post on writer's block:
http://artists-edge.com/2009/03/creators-block/

I have a few suggestions to get you started:
Schedule separate times for writing lyrics - (monday from 2-3, I'll work on lyrics)
As previously suggested, keep a notebook to jot down ideas, quirky turns of phrase, stuff that makes you laugh or cry, etc.
Commit yourself to writing badly - yep, that's right, I said it - write BADLY. And commit to writing badly for a set quantity each time.
Use the notes in the notebook above to jumpstart and just start writing - badly.

Editing, melody, pacing, etc - all of that comes later. After the first draft is written.

Hope that helps,
Debra

[Hookjaw Brown]

Coach,

I find there are several methods to writing songs.

1) As you say, open your ears and listen carefully to those around you. Phrases that strike you funny or sad or whatever....write them down in a book. Your Book OF Phrases. I will call my writing partner with phrases at the oddest times and he writes them into the book. We will get together and just read them aloud, page after page after page.

In a second book, write down ideas, then go to your Book OF Phrases and start arranging lines to go with the idea. Everything gets easier after that. Sir Elton John recently was commissioned to write an opera. All the scenes and ideas were sent to him. He said it was the easiest writing job he had ever had. Two weeks and it was done....he did not have to come up with the song idea.

I had the experience of overhearing one of my wife's girlfriends say that "Her best ex had just come through town. He treats her like a queen." That one was a song in three weeks, in the can.

2) Billy Joel gave this advice. Play an hour a day with a blank mind. Play old favorites and just diddle about. Every once in a while a really good phrase or hook will pop up from your subconscious and a whole song will be there. Viola! Eureka!
Then the rewrite .... oh well.
It is like fishing, the fish are in the water and if you never go down by the river bank and cast a line you will never catch a fish. But it is called FISHING not Catching. There are no guarantees.

3) Writing for a commission. The music director will give you immediate feed back and if you have good understanding, writing the music bed (or whatever) is fairly quick and simple. One just has to be willing to abandon a lot of really cool ideas if they don't work for the director. All those notes end up on the floor.

[Penz2nz]

Hey Coach,

I see that Hook and I have things in common. One of my many writing partners, John Lott and I get together with notebooks and just start reading through ideas until the fan blows something into the wall that sticks. Then we are off and running. This seems to work well for us because the songs usually come together quite quickly and rarely turn into throwaways.

Heck Hook, maybe you and I should take a stab at this. (Was that a proper use of alliteration as a writing device?)

[coachdebra]

that's great - just to clarify, I didn't initiate the thread - it was started by someone else, but the original thread got buggy and I couldn't post my comments on it - so I just picked it up and re-started it here.

[Penz2nz]

Gotcha Deb,

OK to give a simple direct answer to the question: "How do I begin songwriting" Assuming (that always gets me in trouble) that you are serious about being a songwriter, that is the wrong question.

The question should be: Where can I get a good deal on legal pads and lots of pens?

[Kolstad]

I thought the urgent question would be "how do I END songwriting?"
These days it seems it's hard to finish a song, before the next suggestion of changes comes in..

[Penz2nz]

I thought the urgent question would be "how do I END songwriting?"
These days it seems it's hard to finish a song, before the next suggestion of changes comes in..

To be sure! Seems like no matter how much tweeking I do on a song I almost always hear something in the last demo I want to tweek some more.

By the way Mag, I dropped by your web site. Very nice my friend.

[Ajetpackoperation]

If you think of the whole of music as a language (like I do) then it's important to have a huge diverse vocabulary. But the most important thing is already having something to "say". When you have something you feel needs to be said the music will flow naturally with sintax and semantics in tact.

[Hookjaw Brown]

I am always bugging my writing partner about thinking and playing in phrases and putting a darn period at the end. Don't mumble and uhmm until you have something else to say. I think that is why silences are called rests.

I once played with a guitar player who would never finish the song with the rest of the band, he would always put in two or three extra notes. Just to f**# with him I put in two or three notes after his, he then proceeded to put in some more notes and so did I, this went on a bit till he leaned over to the bass player and asked him why I wasn't letting him finish the song. Belly laughing ended the song.

Have something to say and know when to end the conversation.