Recording help

[ajenkz]

I'm about to get back into the swing of things. I haven't been happy with the results of anything i've been able to record so far, so I decided to take some time off before trying again. I've got a new Macbook on the way with Logic Express on it, so adding effects and treating the vocals, as well as things like compression, has just gotten a lot easier for me.As far as my set up now, I am going to be keeping my Tascam DP01 to actually record onto because I like using it over anything else...i'll just be exporting the vocal tracks from there to the Macbook, and adding the effects that way.For processing, I have just a cheap Presonus Tube Pre which gets the job done, an Antares AVP-1 Vocal Producer (auto tune, compression, mic modeling, de-esser, and a few other things I cant think of),and a TC Helicon Voice Tone Create Pedal that I use for effects now. Would I be able to get away with just running my mic into my preamp, and my preamp into the Tascam unit? I have always had an awful time getting compressions settings that work well, which is why I am always holding back while recording and getting results that im not happy with. Will the compression with the software be good enough? I am always working with pre-recorded instrumental tracks and just putting my vocals on top of them so thats all I have to worry about. I would like to keep using the Antares unit, but I am horrid at getting good compression settings out of it.

[ajenkz]

Let me just add that its not the sound quality i'm not happy with, so im not asking for advice on new equipment. Its the things like compression that I cant get right; if I could get compression settings where I could just sing and not worry about clipping I would be fine, but right now everytime I sing while recording I always hold back too much and the results are not even close to the quality of live stuff I have. Will plug ins get me there, or do I need to figure out the Vocal Prodcuer a bit better?

[ibanez468]

May 11, 2008, 4:58pm, ajenkz wrote:Would I be able to get away with just running my mic into my preamp, and my preamp into the Tascam unit?I don't see why not. I have a Tascam 2488, and I run my preamp into it, no problem. I usually run an XLR cable from the preamp to the 2488 though. How are you plugging up? If you're having problems clipping, you're simply gonna' have ta' turn some other things down. Your main volumes on the dp01 & the preamp are gonna' have ta' be adjusted so there's no clipping, then perhaps you can push the compression a little more. Just assuming that that's part of the problem.I-468

[Mark Kaufman]

Maybe those vocal tracks just need to be recorded at a much lower level than you think. If you record a vocal track with extreme dynamics, and the highest spike remains below clipping level, there is a good chance that most of it will sound way too soft...ridiculously so. However, when that track is transferred to Logic Express, you can then compress it and adjust the volume as you like and keep great sound quality. Hopefully the real pros will correct me if I'm wrong. But this is something I've found useful lately, and I sure learned the hard way that you simply cannot clip during recording. In the old days, an occasional foray into the analog red could even be a good thing, but recording too soft was unacceptable: raising the levels meant raising the hiss. But digital works well in the opposite way...recording a little lower is probably the right way to go if your vocal dynamics are spiky.

[ajenkz]

Sounds like that is probably my problem; thanks a lot for the help guys. I always record pretty loud (at least loud in my mind) because my voice is competing against the already mixed instrumentals, but I guess I could just adjust everything once I transfer to Logic.

[mazz]

If at all possible, try to record without compression. With digital, as Mark noted, you can record at lower levels and still get a good sound which you can then mess with during mixing.It sounds like your headphone mix might be getting in your way as well.You might try singing with the speakers on. If you face the back of the mic to the speakers, you'll get a little bleed but maybe not much and you can crank it and give yourself a live experience. You might even try holding the mic if that helps. Or you could set up your recording mic on a stand and then give yourself a dummy mic to hold so you can get the feel of live. Anything to get a great performance.HTH,Mazz

[milfus]

a good deal to try would be to get the absolute loudest you can get, and then gain stage for a little head room from there, if its absolutely too wide from peak to normal, than some compression probably wouldnt hurt, just because you allready have exaggerated dynamics, so a little compression shouldnt be too noticeable, in which case, your best bet, would be to make an aux track, and compress it so that it doesnt feel compressed, and go over really loud parts and really soft parts, and just tweak your compressor up from minimum, when you hit the spot that doesnt red line when you yell, and your soft parts are clear (hopefully you wont sound totally squashed) I would save the compressor settings, and just make using that the status quo until you change equiptment, then you might not need a compressor or might need diff settings, environment can be a huge factor in your peaks though, if you have a really strong node in your range, and around your recording spot, it can seriously cripple your dynamic range too, so if you notice its around the same notes that are too loud or too quiet, you might try moving your chair and mic to a diff spot in the room, if that doesnt seem to help, theres always traps and pads and stuff, but I reccomend moving around a little before you spend the cash, cause sometimes facing a diff way and moving 4 feet can clear your range right up.

[ibanez468]

May 11, 2008, 8:10pm, mazz wrote:If at all possible, try to record without compression.This is also another way to go. Get your vocals recorded without the compression first. Adjust your levels on the DP01 & the preamp so there's no clipping when you sing, and record your performance. When you get your laptop & your Logic goin', you can always apply compression "after-the-fact" ta' get your vox to really jump out atcha'. What's really important is that you get the initial performance as best as possible, and sometimes that may mean an absolute DRY (no compression, no nothin') performance. You've got enough tracks to work with, try some performances with no compression, try some with. Mix/blend the performances together, and see what ya' get. Ya' might get somethin' really cool that you can use.I-468

[ajenkz]

So, even if the vocals are overpowered by the music on playback with the DP01(which tends to be the case no matter what because the instrumentals are already mixed and in some cases mastered), once I transfer it over to Logic and apply some compression and boost the volume enough if needed, everything will be fine?I think I do always try to track way too loud just so that the vocal will stand out over the music. A solution would be just to turn the music track way down when im tracking the vocals and adjust the EQ a bit so I can still hear clearly then? And in the end, it can be brought up and placed nicely in the mix once I transfer?I think this would also remove the crazy sibilance issue I have too when I record because it goes away when im recording with a level that isnt so hot.Thanks to all of you for the advice, and if anyone wants an Antares Vocal Producer, hardly used, looks like I might be selling mine

[Mark Kaufman]

May 12, 2008, 9:22am, ajenkz wrote:So, even if the vocals are overpowered by the music on playback with the DP01(which tends to be the case no matter what because the instrumentals are already mixed and in some cases mastered), once I transfer it over to Logic and apply some compression and boost the volume enough if needed, everything will be fine?Precisely! I use Cubase, but I'm sure Logic is the same: provided your track was not recorded with any clipping, you will be able to increase the gain all you want once transferred to Logic. If it is a really spiky, extremely dynamic track, then I would compress it to ease the spikes (Cubase even has a "Draw" tool to draw out the extreme edges of the spikes), then increase the gain for a nice, fat, loud track.