Reverb basics...

[grandmatarkin]

Thanks for all the tips... I'm noticing different reverb "preferences" now. The guy I work with in Italy (for example) drenches everything in reverb, but this flies in the face of contemporary mixing, so it seems...I'm trying to do a mix like "Beautiful Day" (U2)... Whatever reverb there is on the voice (to me) seems lost in the mix... but not in a bad way. Contemporary mixes do seem dry and "in your face". The hardest part for me is distinguishing the different types of reverb. I'm getting better at it, though... what Mazz said about focusing on one element is so true. As a musician, I was used to focusing on chord types and melody. But now by focusing, I'm starting to hear what's going on reverb wise. And I agree with the "Less is MORE" sentiment... so true. Thanks so much, everyone.Dave

[kouly]

I have learned that just like musical tastes, tastes in reverb change with the time also. The trend these days is for dryer mixes but I have noticed things are changing a bit. A Plate is a good vocal reverb because of its short tail and ability to add warmth yet not be overwhelming. Moderation is a great thing in this area. I think a completely wet or dry mix is too extreme and some reverbs are needed for ambience but moderation is the key unless going for an effect. Thanks for the heads up on the Cello Studio Room IR Gunter. I have a love affair going with Space Designer and could spend hours going through the over 400 impulse responses that come with it. ( There are so many that I just had to count them)So many good ones but once you have found a good one for your purpose time dictates that you move on. That would be the only thing where I have a problem with Logic. It is a sonic supermarket. It is so easy to spend literally hours checking out plugins and settings that real work can get side tracked. Every so often I just have to get in there and play with stuff. I would not trade it for anything though. It is a sound designers dream.

[liamkelly]

Far be it from me to add my useless 2c to the reverb argument but in keeping with my stubborn personality, I will.There has been a tendency since the mid 1980s to mix many tracks in a song with a lot of reverb. Whatever the reverb type. There were a number of reasons for this: it was thought to add thickness and depth to substandard vocals, to hide or complicate simple instrumental lines and, indeed, the gated/reverbed snare was an 80s standard. As production progressed through the 90s, many newer mix engineers opted for clarity rather than disguise. Gone were the smoke and mirrors and in was talent again (as it had been in the late 60s).I know this seems hard to believe in these days of Disney pop, pop rap and general crap, but if we're honest- it's true.While there is no question that reverb adds depth, few will argue that it is the most used and least understood effect in the box of tricks (along with compression).Reverb really does require an engineer who understands song spacing and tension and release. Whether it's uptempo, balladic, country whatever.. if you have even just two instruments (one being voice) leaking room echoes and bouncers all over the place (even if they are in time) you are going to have trouble. And noise. And rumble. At whatever frequency.I feel (with my highly limited knowledge) that using reverb is about knowing how long certain instruments/voices should leak into spaces for. And that's it.Told you I knew nothing!Liamwww.liamkellylive.com

[chitownjerry]

Quote:check out http://www.normbowler.com/interregnum/02-WarGames.mp3 for an example of where I used room reverb on drum machines and electric guitars to get a live room feel.nbHey Norm,What did you use on the voice in that song? I am just starting out with home recording and am doing ok with guitar (acoustic so far) and bass, but getting an edgy, modern sound on voice really escapes me. What I am ending up with is either just so-so or too much verb, which I don't want at all. I like what you did on that one.. it almost sounds like a slight echo?Thanks!Jerry

[normbowler]

Jerry -- after a check listen and some head scratching, here's what I think I did.I used a slap echo (250-325 milliseconds) with no feedback so there is only one delay. I put it on a send (i.e., a separate channel from the vocal itself, returning on another channel in the mix). That way I can turn it up and down without affecting the main vocal signal. It also lets me pan it in the mix. If the vocal is dead center, I will pan the reverb and/or echo 1/3 to 1/2 right to give a sense of width.I also put a little plate reverb on the voice, as usual. But not too much this time maybe! nbp.s. mixing trick -- on some songs I put a little very light distortion in the vocal to give it more bite. Turn it up until it's definitiely too much, then turn it down till you think it's gone. then turn it OFF, and you realize it was still there. Turn it back on for a little oomph. I think I hear the distortion trick on this one. My wife also tells me I was ripping out my vocal chords when I did the vocal on this one, so maybe the distortion is natural

[chitownjerry]

Norm,Thanks! I feel like a real noob asking questions like that, but with the almost limitless combinations of effects, equipment (real and plug-in), and techniques (like putting it on a send) that trial and error is almost out of the question.. especially since I am not even aware of most of the things I could try!You did have a good raspiness (is the term "fry"?) on that song.. well done! and thanks again!Jerry

[triviul]

I don't know about reverb basics, but here are a few tips I'd offer (in no particular order):- using the reverb in a send-return configuration is certainly the best way to go, not least because it lets you EQ the reverb return independently of the dry signal. I pretty routinely high-pass-filter my reverb returns to avoid low-end clutter, and I also sometimes cut a little high end from reverbs which have been programmed to impress rather than to work in a mix. It's also great for vocal reverb in ballads (where you need a fair amount) to be able to de-ess the reverb send, thereby avoiding the George Michael Eternal Sibilance Effect (TM).- for those of you not using convolution processing, it's an absolute must. If you have a VST host, get hold of the freeware SIR plug-in. Impulse responses are available from various sources, and it's easy to get hold of freeware Lexicon 960L, TC System 6000, and EMT 250 impulses for download. It's a no-brainer.- if you're working in software, consider automating your effects sends. This is something I do pretty much as a matter of course, and it's one of the key elements of the small/tight-vs-big/open pop dynamics thing.- these days, a lot of what people think is reverb is actually tempo-synchronised delays. These have many of the properties of reverb (blending the dry sound with the mix), but don't distance the dry sounds from the listener nearly as much, or indeed clutter the low-level details in the mix.- if your reverb is putting your lead instruments or vocals too far back in the mix, try increasing the reverb's predelay time. Psychologically, the increased time-lapse between the onset of the dry sound and the onset of the reverb makes it seem like the dry sound is closer to you. It also avoids blurring consonants in vocals parts (and thereby improves intelligibility).Like someone else said, though, this is just the start with reverb, and a lot of things depend on what style of music you're working on.

[triviul]

...and another thing... There are a lot of things which fulfil some of the functions of reverb other than reverb, if you get my drift. For example, vinyl/tape noise, room tones, and synth pads can all fill out your sound and bind your mix together without you using any reverb at all. This is something of a secret weapon of mine, to be honest, but I'm happy to pass if on as long as you all promise to shred yourselves after reading this post...

[triviul]

Quote:Thanks for the pointers triviul. Myself I'm not sold on convolution reverb. The CPU use is high even on a send bus. Have you tried CSR yet? I have pristine space (a nice convolution reverb) and commercial IRs but I think reverbs like CSR are very good alternatives and lighter on CPU as well as being low latency and good for tracking. It is also worth noting that there are many IRs out there with lots of noise and problems so you want to view the IR waveforms and make sure they are reasonable.I hear what you're saying. I was already perfectly happy with the Lexicon MPX550 and TC M-One XL I built into my own personal (computerless) home studio setup. However, I don't ever normally run more than three SIRs, so CPU usage is not normally a problem for me, especially as the CPU load is in proportion to the reverb time and I don't tend to use more than one longer reverb. Furthermore, SIR is free, as are the serious IRs at http://memi.de/echochamber/responses. I have little doubt that CSR is great (and there are great non-convolution processors out there), but unless you're seriously into your parameter tweaking then SIR is a worth at least trying out. I've certainly been very happy with it. Bear in mind as well that the impulse responses at the link above include samples of a number of very famous non-convolution processors, and while convolution cannot perfectly recreate their sound, what it does do is pretty damn close.Quote:I would like to learn more about using delays as you describe. I have fabfilter timeless and it sounds good, but I only get good FX results, not reverb and space results. Any pointers on using delays as an alternative to reverb?First of all, sync the delay to the tempo of the track, which will make it much less audible in itself, even when it's doing its job of blending things into the mix. As with reverb, automate the sends and EQ the returns. Real echoes normally have neither as much low end nor as much high end as the direct signal, so that kind of EQ will help create a more 'background' result. In fact, Spike Stent (a famous UK mixing engineer I'm a great fan of) recommends always making your delay returns sound quite different from the dry signals (and that can extend to flanging, distorting, compressing, etc. delay signal) in order to keep your sounds both blended and upfront (if that doesn't seem like a contradiction in terms). Chorusing in particular can help to make delay returns a bit hazier and less noticeable.I find in practice that one of the critical things to concentrate on with using delays like this is to juggle the delay's feedback level with the master effect return level until you get just the right effect. Too much feedback and your mix becomes blurred, too much effect return and it begins to sound like an effect. Too little of either and the sounds in your mix won't glue together enough. If the arrangement of the track varies, of course, you may again need to automate controls to keep things in line.In terms of getting space from delays, try to use stereo-in/stereo-out delays and set up the routing in your computer software so that you can pan each channel send to match the channel's main pan control. If you don't do this, the delay returns for all tracks will come right down the middle of your mix, making it sound narrower. You can also experiment with opposition-panning sends, although I only use this trick occasionally and usually only with instruments which are already using opposition-panned double-tracks.

[emusic]

Quote:Contemporary mixes do seem dry and in your face.They arent dry. But they often have such little amounts of reverb that it blends in. I allways solo my tracks for reverb measurement. Luckily I´m using the above mentioned spacedesigner in Logic Pro, and I very rarely have to use other than presets.Contemporary music has a lot less verb true. Especially on vocals and snare. Strings still need a dash of effects though imo.Remember that there are a lot of other effects you can use that partly might replace your verbs. Chorus and delays, echoes and many more.Good luck turning those knobs.