Sonar? Logic? ProTools? WHICH IS BEST?

[girasoledonna]

Hey guys - Ok so i need advice. Up to this point I have been a songwriter/artist.. but now I will be composing multi-instrumental tracks that are fairly simple for a big day-time television show. I don't own any equipment for recording except a roland fp3 keyboard. What should I get? I am looking to buy something without a lot of bells and whistles.. just something to get me by without requiring me to max out my credit cards.. at the same time,... the quality needs to sound pretty good.I've heard people say Sonar, Logic, Protools, etc are all good - but which one should I buy? What do you think and why? And then I need help knowing what I need to buy and how much it will cost...Thanks!!- Anj

[slideboardouts]

Dec 26, 2008, 9:16pm, girasoledonna wrote:Hey guys - Ok so i need advice. Up to this point I have been a songwriter/artist.. but now I will be composing multi-instrumental tracks that are fairly simple for a big day-time television show. I don't own any equipment for recording except a roland fp3 keyboard. What should I get? I am looking to buy something without a lot of bells and whistles.. just something to get me by without requiring me to max out my credit cards.. at the same time,... the quality needs to sound pretty good.I've heard people say Sonar, Logic, Protools, etc are all good - but which one should I buy? What do you think and why? And then I need help knowing what I need to buy and how much it will cost...Thanks!!- Anj Hey Anj,I'm on the same talk-show-composer team so i think I can give you a decent answer (even though I'm a fairly new member).If you are a mac user...then I absolutely, without a doubt think you should get Logic. It gives you the most bang for your buck, and aside from doing the big orchestral promo/special project stuff (you will probably need East West Gold for that) you will have everything you need. Logic does have decent orchestral sounds though.The full version (Logic Studio) is $499.00 and you get tons of sounds, mixing tools, bundled software...all kinds of crap. About a year ago this same package would have cost you 2 or 3 thousand, maybe more. Logic Studio should be enough to get a lot of work done. You can get Logic Express for $199 and it will do the job, but you will probably need to at least get some string samples...express really lacks in the string department and strings seem to be popular for this company.You will also need an audio interface. I would get a firewire interface over USB anyday. The specs say that USB 2.0 is faster than both firewire 400 and 800, but in reality USB never even gets as fast as firewire 400. Not in my experience anyways . And you definitely want firewire for your external hard drives. I don't really know what the "best" cheap interface is, but you can get a presonus firebox (thats what they used to be called anyways) for around $250.00 I think. That should be enough for your purposes.Next is the Midi controller. If your Roland has Midi ports on the back then you can get a midi cable and hook it up to your interface and your good to go. Lastly, you will need some decent reference monitors. Do NOT mix on computer speakers from wal-mart/best buy etc. It will sound like ass on every system except the one you mixed it on. I learned this the hard way. I use KRK Rokit 6's and like them...they seem to get high marks across the board for entry level reference monitors, though I won't say that they are the be all and end all. For a decent pair of entry level monitors, expect to pay between $300-$600 new. The KRK Rokit 5's are $300 and should be good enough. You can probably find cheaper ones that will do the job too. Another option for monitoring is a good pair of headphones. That should run you $100-$200. You really want monitors and a good pair of headphones to mix on, but once you learn your headphones you can do broadcast quality mixes on them IMO.Those are the basics. If you are PC based then I can't help ya too much Though I am not a Pro Tools fan, Pro Tools 8 apparently has gotten much better on the midi side of things so you might want to look at that too (if you are PC based, if you are mac based I still say go with Logic). The bundled software/hardware makes it fairly affordable, but you are stuck with only using pro-tools interfaces. Also, I believe that PT LE comes with a USB interface. I really hate USB, but it'll work if you want to go that route. -Steve

[mazz]

Hi Anj,Steve is right on with his recommendations. If you don't have a computer already, then you'll need to get one. I suggest Mac but if you prefer PC, then try to get one from someone who makes them specifically for audio, like PC Audio Labs or Vision DAW. You might spend more but you'll get tech support and a machine that will work immediately. As a professional composer, you can't afford downtime, you need to be up and running and able to crank out stuff at a moment's notice, day or night. Purpose built DAWs are a must, IMO, for a zero downtime gig such as the one we work on.On Mac, Logic is the way to go, on PC, lots of people like Sonar. No matter which way you go, expect to spend a LOT of time getting up to speed, probably months to really start getting the hang of it. You'll have a steep learning curve, what with recording, mixing and not to mention composing on demand, which is a skill and craft unto itself. Someday you'll sleep, until then, you'll be learning like crazy!!You can probably build a decent starter kit for around 5K if you follow Steve's recommendations.It's a journey you're on. You bough the E ticket. Enjoy the ride!!!Mazz

[davewalton]

There is no best... at the pro level they're all good. In short, my advice is to find the DAW software that you like and then buy the hardware that the software is primarily designed for. If you get a chance to see the various packages and you happen to like Logic, that answers the question of which computer to buy - a Mac. If you like Sonar, then buy a PC since Sonar is primarily written first for the PC and then ported to the Mac. There's always a "primary" target when writing software, and the computer you choose should match that "primary" target that the software is written for. Having said all that... if you already own or use one or the other then I'd go with that and then pick one of the DAW packages for that platform. In other words, if all of your life you've used a PC then getting a Mac (to me at least) wouldn't make a lot of sense. No need to increase a learning curve which will already be pretty steep. HTH,DavePS - Matto uses a Cubase on a PC... Mazz uses Logic (I think) on a Mac. Neither one seems too handicapped by their choices.

[anne]

Anj - I don't work for that company but I can offer a little help with the software.If you go with Logic / Mac there are some excellent videos to help get you up to speed faster while you are using the program. These are at grooveboxmusic.com and they are very good; recommended on the Apple site as well. Also, some specific tutorials are on youtube by sflogicninja - you can just type in that name and it will come up.If you go with PC / Protools or PC /Cubase, (and I'd recommend cubase over protools just because its really straightforward, imho) there is a good video set at digitalmusicdoctor.com .. I believe they have sonar info there too.FYI, I have cubase for my Mac and it is really easy to learn enough to start recording, but I now use Logic Studio.I have a presonus FP10 for a/d (since I do some live recording for others, I needed the extra inputs) and it gives a good sonic range and sound, and uses firewire or spdif for your connection to the computer.Don't skimp on the headphones or reference monitors - this is key. If you can swing it the Yamaha HSM8 is a very nice set, and run about 750 / pair. The speakers may easily be your biggest single expense besides the system. I started using a pair of audio technica headphones and a set of M-audio dx4 speakers and really got some nice mixes on even that set up - those little speakers are decent to mix on (pretty flat all the way across) and cost lest then $200 at the time (I think they are closer to $130 now). Here is a sample of a mix on those little speakershttp://www.taximusic.com/stream/181124/D....%20down.mp3.mp3If that link didn't work correctly, it is on my taxi page and is called "Don't let them get you down"HTH

[girasoledonna]

wow this is great stuff. Thanks for all the useful information. Now how about a good place to buy all this stuff? and how to see samples ( dave ) of the various programs? Lastly, a good way to begin climbing this steep hill? Books to read or some help on how to learn fast? I know it will be months before I really can do this, I am literally starting from scratch, but I am eager and determined...

[mazz]

To check out Logic, I'd go to an Apple store and have them give you a demo.For the other stuff, I'd go to the biggest town near you and go to the music store and ask them to demo things for you. I'd be willing to bet that Sam Ash has a room with this stuff set up that you could try out.

[matto]

Anj,if you go with Mac then I think Logic will be your best bet as far as bang for buck.As far as PCs I would respectfully disagree with mazz that a purpose built machine is necessary for "professional work"; I've been making a living for years now using stock Dell machines (I just ordered my first purpose built PC a few days ago).However, if you are completely new to the whole DAW concept (= "Digital Audio Workstation", the term commonly used for computer based music production systems) then I would recommend a purpose built PC, because those companies will not only build the PC to your specs (and assist you in figuring out what you need), but they will also install the hardware and software for you, which means when you get it, all you need to do is plug it in, turn it on, hook up your midi keyboard and you're ready to start learning. Which makes it the easiest of all solutions, even easier than getting a Mac.As far as software, on a PC you'll probably be best off with either Sonar or Cubase; you won't need the top of the line version to get started, the mid priced version will do (in the case of Cubase this is called "Cubase Studio"). In addition to the DAW, I would recommed Native Instruments "Kontakt 3" software sampler, which comes with a big library of pro sounds in all different categories, and is also the most common platform for third party sounds, which means you can expand its sonic palette later as you grow more comfortable with the process of writing, arranging and producing music using a DAW.The above system (decent speed purpose built computer, a basic audio interface with a mic pre and MIDI I/O, Cubase 4 Studio and Kontakt 3) should come in at around 2,5k including installation of the hardware/software and shipping/handling.You'll still need to add some kind of monitoring system (like e.g. the KRK's Steve recommeds above).HTH,matto

[mazz]

matto,I definitely wasn't saying that a purpose built machine is the only way to go, but as you much more elegantly put it, for out of the box ease of use and almost zero downtime, that's the best way to go, particularly for someone who has no DAW experience! Then the time can be spent learning the software rather than troubleshooting the computer.Having the experts build the machine and install the software and hardware is worth the little bit extra one would pay, IMO.

[girasoledonna]

Do they make purpose built machines for Mac's or just PC's? I have always used PC's... but my boyfriend is a MAC user and also a MAC repair man - he knows everything about them. He is encouraging me to get one, saying they are much better machines and much more user friendly once you get the hang of them, but i'm wondering if an additional learning curve is such a good idea. Otherwise, its sounding like its between Logic and Sonar - i've heard great things about Logic - never knew about Sonar till I got signed... honestly, I need the most hassle free set up - and the easiest program to use - because it's going to be a big learning process as is!Thanks for all the feedback!!!