sound quality check - orchestral

[MountainManMusic]

hey forum friends,

please let me know if this sounds "real" or "fake", or whichever it is closer to.

this is my 2nd major attempt at using Hollywood strings/brass library, if any of you out there have experience with these two libraries please tell me whats working or not working. i have been focusing on velocities, volume, and mod wheel settings.

my wood winds are from Komplete 7, wish i could afford Hollywood WW but alas not yet.

no EQ or FX on the mix yet. Just trying to get the "performance" to feel live first.


https://soundcloud.com/jess-fuller/a-me ... -forgotten

thanks!

Fuller

[6bq9]

The dynamics are pretty good, but it has that MIDI feel to it. Someone else here probably has pointers on humanizing it more. I think if you can get a more natural feel to it, it will be very strong.

[coolhouse912]

Hi Jess,

I have to agree with Sean that it hasn't quite ditched the MIDI feel. I think that EQ & FX will probably help when you apply them. I'm hoping someone more experienced with this palette like Mazz will weigh in with some concrete suggestions. I like it. It's a nice piece.

Good luck,

Mike

[richmstudios]

Not sure if you've tried this: go ahead and play each individual instrument as a separate entity, i.e., do not play an orchestral "chord" hit as a polyphonic keyboard chord with your full hand. It definitely helps humanize the performance (so long as you don't quantize of course).

Great track - I'd love to hear it fully realized!

Good luck,

Rich

[MountainManMusic]

ok, so i am getting back that it is still "midi" sounding. can anyone narrow down which instruments are failing me the most?

like is it the oboe, or Wood winds in general, or is it an overall midi-ness?

is it a performance issue or a timbre thing?

richmstudios- there are no "chords" , each line/instrument has its own note.

thanks,
Fuller

[Salty]

I got to listen to it only once before soundcloud started having some issues- so Ive gotta go back again, but I think part of the issue is the attack and decay of the strings;
More when I get a second listening...


Salty

[mikeymike2000]

Hey Fuller:

I had to try many times to get the track then accidentally closed it and it would not come back. Seems like sound cloud is having an issue.

From what I remember on one pass only...

The strings to me are the worst offenders of the MIDI you want to get away from. The brass and woodwinds are OK, brass being the best.

All in all I think EQ and reverb will fix most everything. Reverb is tricky, it is easy to put in too much but too little really takes away from it too. In the other song, I had two reverbs going. One on the strings alone and then one on the entire group (so the strings were verbed twice. but there were also about 8 different string samples combined at different levels and velocities and as you know, off the grid).

The "chords" the other comments are talking about I agreed with, so if each line is independent I would guess there may be too many 3rds in succession that give a block like chunky sound. In the lower register of the strings and brass you may consider opening it up more to allow more breath in the music. (take out some of the chord - or take the "middle" note of the chord and play it an octave higher). If I were able to listen again I would give the specific times this happens. I think it was 2 or 3 times.

(once below middle C you want to stay away from 3rds unless absolutely necessary but even then, flipping the octave on the 3rd will be much better. Keep in mind also not to use too many parallel 5ths either. This can create a similar sound and in classical or quazi classical it is really frowned upon in general. Octave doubling is the best way to get depth down there)

Again, I only was able to listen once.

Hope that helps.

BTW, good title on this one

[VanderBoegh]

I agree with the "MIDI-ness" of this piece. Great arrangement and song, but you're being held back by some unnaturalness in some of the synths. Others have chimed in on the strings, but for me the oboe around the 1:00 mark (playing the 16th note pattern) jumped out as being fake. I would expect this line to be more legato and connected, rather than sounding like individually attacked notes. I don't know your program to offer any advice on how to help, but maybe elongate the midi lengths in this passage and duck the velocity on all but the first note?

~~Matt

[MountainManMusic]

thanks everybody for you comments.

VanderBoegh- thanks for the idea of velocity and legato changes- it really improved the sound, more what i was going for!

posted a new version for those who are interested in checking my progress.

https://soundcloud.com/jess-fuller/memo ... ten-master

i feel pretty good about how it sounds now, would be interesting to see how you guys feel about it now. i will leave the first version up for A/B comparison a little while so if your reading this in the distant future, sorry.

Fun back-story! this song is really old, i did have a live orchestra perform it (sight reading only) back in 2000 but that file was lost in a HD failure several years later. so i have tried to recreate the sound i remember from then (minus the few wrong notes sight reading produces) which might help to explain why i mixed/eq'd the way i did.

thanks again!
Fuller

[kclements]

I think it is much improved over the first version. The velocity changes really helped.

I know you said you were leaving the reverb and efx until you got the programming right. The sound of the hall is so integral to the overall sound of an orchestra. I don't think you can make good judgements without at least a bit of verb to warm thing up. That said, it seems that your virtual orchestra players are all standing in a single line. There isn't a lot of depth. The strings are just as loud and forward and the brass, which is as loud and forward as the oboe... I don't hear a lot of actual stage space placement going on. Again, maybe you find it better to add this depth later.

Personally, I do some mixing as I compose. It helps me hear the overall balance of the orchestra I'm trying to emulate so I can make judgements on volume and brightness of each section. For example, the brass sits at the back of the stage, so their sound is a little darker and delayed just a bit from the strings sitting on the front of the stage. For me, it helps get some of these characteristics in place while writing. Your milage may very.

Keep working on it. I think is a great start.

cheers
kc