Stems and Underscores

[Kolstad]

Thanks Mazz,
Looking forward to the sequel

I'd bet you could rewrite all your posts to a book on prouction music in due time. I hope you save them yourself.. like you said, there's not much out on that particular subject.

[fusilierb]

Hey Bryan, are you using a PS3?

xbox 360

[mazz]

Hi folks. As promised here's a couple of stingers derived from the original piece.

Stinger 1 is from the 2 bars just before the "B" section with the melody taken out and the big percussive hit ringing out. The percussive hit is the "Stinger" part of the stinger.

Stinger 2 is the very ending of the piece but I pasted the first 2 bars of the "melody" and bassline from this section right before the last note because it seemed to work harmonically better for some reason. I kept the long swelling sound in there because I think it adds drama.

http://www.reverbnation.com/tunepak/2642992

just updated the link, now it has both stingers on there!


Hope this helps. Again, if matto or deankripp or others who write this kind of stuff all the time want to chime in and add, embellish or rip me to shreds, feel free!!!! I'm still learning every day!

Cheers!

Mazz

[brindabella]

Thanks Mazz,
Looking forward to the sequel

I'd bet you could rewrite all your posts to a book on prouction music in due time. I hope you save them yourself.. like you said, there's not much out on that particular subject.

Excellent idea! You can do an e-book I'll be your first buyer!

[mazz]

Thanks Mazz,
Looking forward to the sequel

I'd bet you could rewrite all your posts to a book on prouction music in due time. I hope you save them yourself.. like you said, there's not much out on that particular subject.

Excellent idea! You can do an e-book I'll be your first buyer!

Thanks folks! Food for thought! I'd have to go back and collect them from the archives!

[fusilierb]

Ahh, ok. I get it. Stinger is a good name.
Thanks!
B

[rnrmachine]

Awesome deal Mazz, props to you for taking your time and helping people out with this... /all ears

Rob

[deankripp]

Again, if matto or deankripp or others who write this kind of stuff all the time want to chime in and add, embellish or rip me to shreds, feel free!!!!

"Rip me to shreds" Haha! Quite the contrary..... I think i learned something here today

Great post, great explanation Mazz - and thanks for posting the examples up here too. I'm still learning this biz as well - kinda flying by the seat of my pants sometimes - but, your explanation and examples are pretty much the way I am doing things...

The libraries that I am currently work with all seem to have slightly different requirements. Some want just the full track or full song, most want the full track and an underscore (the underscore for me is quite often simply muting the vocals or the lead instrument), some libraries require all of the above plus edits of 60sec,(actually 59.5 sec), 30 sec 15sec, and stingers....

In addition some libraries require 48/16 AIFF, some want a WAV file, some want mp3 320, some MP3 192 and one library wants MP3 128s only.... Some libraries want the tracks to average 3 minutes, another library that I write for wants the tracks to be between 60 and 90 seconds only....

But it's not nearly as complicated as it may sound. Once you have the track recorded you can mix it to any format (WAV, AIFF, MP3 etc...) in a matter of seconds.... and I just stemmed out a track with Full version, Underscore version, Alternate underscore (different things muted), a 60sec, 30sec, 15 sec, and a stinger... and the whole process too - maybe 2 hours.

....Most of that time was spent on the 60/30/15s.... there may be an easier way to do those edits but I just took my final FULL track mix and did a "save as" 3 times (Save as: Song 60, Song 30, Song 15) and then cut up those "save as" productions to the shorter lengths just by using the scissor function on multiple tracks.... (FYI - I use Nuendo)

... sheesh I'm babbling - and I've forgotten what it was that I was talking about - AND I'm probably off topic... I'll stop

again, thanks for the post Mazz


dean

[bigbluebarry]

But it's not nearly as complicated as it may sound. Once you have the track recorded you can mix it to any format (WAV, AIFF, MP3 etc...) in a matter of seconds.... and I just stemmed out a track with Full version, Underscore version, Alternate underscore (different things muted), a 60sec, 30sec, 15 sec, and a stinger... and the whole process too - maybe 2 hours.

....Most of that time was spent on the 60/30/15s.... there may be an easier way to do those edits but I just took my final FULL track mix and did a "save as" 3 times (Save as: Song 60, Song 30, Song 15) and then cut up those "save as" productions to the shorter lengths just by using the scissor function on multiple tracks.... (FYI - I use Nuendo)

I too am going through this process and it seems as if each library has different needs and requirements. I'm on Pro Tools and unfortunately, it doesn't have an "offline" bounce to disk/render function. So you either have to bounce to disk in real time OR you can do what I do and route all of your tracks/groups to one buss and then route that buss to a stereo track. Granted, I still have to play through the song once in real-time but after that, I've got a stereo file of my final mix right there in my session.

Then I just duplicate that track as many times as I need to make the various edits. In this case, I'd make 4 copies (60-sec, 30-sec, 15-sec, stinger) and when I'm done editing them, I've got all of my various versions right there in one session, ready to export in to whatever format the library/publisher needs.

I can also leave notes for myself on the tracks for each edit, as in, this 60-sec edit consisted of the first A section, first B section, and the stinger section, so that if for some reason, I ever had to go back and make a change to the original mix and then re-send the same edits again, I'd know what I'd have to do to get those exact same edits. That actually happened to me this week with one of my newest library deals. They had already signed off on all the tracks but as they were preparing to promote them to their client base, they decided that the melody line of one track was just a tad too similar to one of the other tracks. They wanted me to change the melody for one of the tracks. So after I did that, I had to resend the full version, underscore and a new 60-sec edit. Which took all of 10 minutes to do once I finished writing the new melody line because of the prep work I had done beforehand.

Thanks Mazz for starting this thread and for posting those stinger examples!

hth,
- Big Blue

[matto]

In library music, the term is used differently. It refers to the alternate versions of the piece as "stems".

Actually in my experience this is incorrect. I only know of one library that uses the term "stems" (IMHO erroneously) to mean "alternate versions". All others call them...alternate versions.
And I have written for a library that wants real stems, in other words submixes which can be recombined into the full mix...

Not that I would ever argue with a client about the terminology they use, I just wanted to point out that in my experience the use of the term stem to mean alternate version is not industry wide standard practice...

The "underscore version" is called different things, some call it "underscore version", others "reduced version", others "background version"...or in the case of vocal songs the term "non-vocal version" may be used.

As Dean pointed out everybody has a slightly different way of working and thus slightly different requirments, so it's always best to inquire rather than assume...if the specs are not provided automatically, which they usually are anyway.

Also, of the short versions mentioned, among the companies I work for/have worked for, variable length stingers are the least requested, whereas broadcast edits are commonplace. Usually 60/30 and either 15 or 10, rarely both.

HTH,

matto