String Sections and Reverb - How To?

with industry Pro, Nick Batzdorf

Moderators: admin, mdc, TAXIstaff

gregorym
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 4:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by gregorym » Mon Aug 05, 2019 3:03 am

Should I put reverb on the double bass and cello? It sounds bigger and muddy when I do put verb. Maybe I'm putting to much. Any thoughts, tips and tricks would be appreciated.

User avatar
GBall
Active
Active
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:05 pm
Gender: Male
Location: DFW
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by GBall » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am

Caveat that creativity has no rules - but in my own listening I've never heard them without reverb. I think you want that reverb as glue that they are playing together in the same space as the rest of the strings/orchestra. Some mixers I've studied (most?) live by the rule to hi-pass all their reverbs. They don't want the muddyness or loss of definition in the lower frequency, but they want reverb on the higher frees of even the contrabass for example. A 12 or 24 DB per octave filter at 120-150 hz. generally does a good job. You mileage may vary, etc.

gregorym
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 4:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by gregorym » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:13 am

GBall wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am
Caveat that creativity has no rules - but in my own listening I've never heard them without reverb. I think you want that reverb as glue that they are playing together in the same space as the rest of the strings/orchestra. Some mixers I've studied (most?) live by the rule to hi-pass all their reverbs. They don't want the muddyness or loss of definition in the lower frequency, but they want reverb on the higher frees of even the contrabass for example. A 12 or 24 DB per octave filter at 120-150 hz. generally does a good job. You mileage may vary, etc.
Thanks GBall! :) I knew those Low and Hi knobs on the reverb were there for a reason, but it never dawned on me to use them to cut out the low fundamentals of the bass while keeping the upper notes and harmonics. Thanks for this knowledge, it's awesome.

User avatar
andygabrys
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5423
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:09 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Summerland, BC by way of Santa Fe, Chilliwack, Boston, NYC
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by andygabrys » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:13 pm

GBall wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am
.......I've never heard them without reverb........
Agreed.
GBall wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am
......I think you want that reverb as glue that they are playing together in the same space as the rest of the strings/orchestra...........
and also living in the space the rest of your mix creates depending on the style. Almost no mixed recordings out there with no ambience in them.
GBall wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am
........... Some mixers I've studied (most?) live by the rule to hi-pass all their reverbs............. They don't want the muddyness or loss of definition in the lower frequency, but they want reverb on the higher frees of even the contrabass for example....
A lot of reverbs also have top end taken off as well. That's a tool to make something sound smoother and less 80's especially on vocals - but on the other hand if you are going for a certain vibe you might exacerbate the top end too.

Most reverbs have eqs on them which are great if you are using the reverb as an insert effect right on the sound source.

If you use it as a send (more CPU efficient in general) you can just throw an eq on the reverb AUX before or after the reverb. It has a different effect.

gregorym
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 4:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by gregorym » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:35 pm

andygabrys wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:13 pm
GBall wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am
.......I've never heard them without reverb........
Agreed.
GBall wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am
......I think you want that reverb as glue that they are playing together in the same space as the rest of the strings/orchestra...........
and also living in the space the rest of your mix creates depending on the style. Almost no mixed recordings out there with no ambience in them.
GBall wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:03 am
........... Some mixers I've studied (most?) live by the rule to hi-pass all their reverbs............. They don't want the muddyness or loss of definition in the lower frequency, but they want reverb on the higher frees of even the contrabass for example....
A lot of reverbs also have top end taken off as well. That's a tool to make something sound smoother and less 80's especially on vocals - but on the other hand if you are going for a certain vibe you might exacerbate the top end too.

Most reverbs have eqs on them which are great if you are using the reverb as an insert effect right on the sound source.

If you use it as a send (more CPU efficient in general) you can just throw an eq on the reverb AUX before or after the reverb. It has a different effect.
I was working on a mix with GBall's ideas today, and cutting out the low end using the reverb's input filters and that helped a little. I still can't get the muddyness out of my track when the double bass and India drums come in. I tried panning the drums, helped a little, but still not clear as day. I imagine it would probably help if I post what I'm working on. I'll just post the part of the track that matters. We have a storm here, so I can't get on my work pc.

When I include the track, is there anything else I should include? Like plugin pictures, etc?

Thank you GBall and Andy!

User avatar
andygabrys
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5423
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:09 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Summerland, BC by way of Santa Fe, Chilliwack, Boston, NYC
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by andygabrys » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:43 pm

Just post some references that you are thinking about when trying to get this mix going.

Lotsa great music but sometimes hard to offer help in a vacuum.

It might help cutting some bottom of the contrabass etc. Sometimes things get a little too fat.

A distant mic'd instrument isn't going to have a lot of thunderous low end - close mic'd on the other hand often does.

gregorym
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 4:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by gregorym » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:08 am

andygabrys wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:43 pm
Just post some references that you are thinking about when trying to get this mix going.

Lotsa great music but sometimes hard to offer help in a vacuum.

It might help cutting some bottom of the contrabass etc. Sometimes things get a little too fat.

A distant mic'd instrument isn't going to have a lot of thunderous low end - close mic'd on the other hand often does.
Andy, I took out some bottom end. I think that gets me what I want: clear bottom end.

Reference Track
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/khf81tqld290 ... g.mp3?dl=0

The trouble spot in my track...
https://soundcloud.com/gammasign/positi ... 32/s-lY5Qh

Positive listing - entire track
https://soundcloud.com/gammasign/positive-cuev4/s-7OAS6

User avatar
andygabrys
Total Pro
Total Pro
Posts: 5423
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:09 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Summerland, BC by way of Santa Fe, Chilliwack, Boston, NYC
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by andygabrys » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:20 am

sounds a lot better.

If it were me I would:

1) examine a slower build at 0:44. Like from the start you have what sounds like Pizz CB and maybe cello. At 0:44 you go to Arco Celli / CB. I might hold back the aero low strings until 1:12 and have them either play a more active pizzicato pattern or a more sparse / higher register Arco pattern from 0:44 to 1:12
2) consider dropping the volume of the strings a little at 0:44 (or at least the low strings)

At any rate - dropping some low end helped balance it a lot more.

NIce!

User avatar
TuKatz
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 100
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 9:29 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Portland, OR
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by TuKatz » Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:00 pm

I just wanted to say that I think that you have a great sounding cue going there. Andy has great advice, I think a music sup would be able to use this, great work.

gregorym
Getting Busy
Getting Busy
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed May 15, 2019 4:35 pm
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: String Sections and Reverb - How To?

Post by gregorym » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:07 am

andygabrys wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:20 am
sounds a lot better.

If it were me I would:

1) examine a slower build at 0:44. Like from the start you have what sounds like Pizz CB and maybe cello. At 0:44 you go to Arco Celli / CB. I might hold back the aero low strings until 1:12 and have them either play a more active pizzicato pattern or a more sparse / higher register Arco pattern from 0:44 to 1:12
2) consider dropping the volume of the strings a little at 0:44 (or at least the low strings)

At any rate - dropping some low end helped balance it a lot more.

NIce!
Thanks Andy! I changed the arco to pizz at 0:44 to 1:12. Tell me what you think. I still got plenty of time to add/subtract things to the track. Your help is much appreciated.

Version 5
https://soundcloud.com/gammasign/positive-cuev5/s-BkTHt

Thanks again,
Greg

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests