TAXI Nashville/Country Panel June 8th, 2009

[jchitty]

May 30, 2009, 7:38pm, heinsite wrote:heck, i asked what i thought was a simple question on page 2, and was ignored, so i won't be flying out for this one.but i'm hoping you'll get an answer greg.the best,whWarren, I'm guessing Mr. L is really busy with the Nashville meeting and couldn't answer your post, but I'm sure he'd love you to attend, provided it's not too late of a notice. And if you come to Nashville, I'll run up and give you a big 'ole hug! So come on to Nashvegas.

[heinsite]

this is for Aub--no, let me get this absolutely right here on this page. just in case anyone else can't read EXACTLY what i have said: (and i guess if somebody cares THAT much, they'll go back and do one of those little boxes and prove me an idiot...)--MY POST ON PAGE 2 WAS THERE BECAUSE MR. LASKOW HAS LITERALLY (OR HE WAS ON THIS THREAD...) ANSWERED EVERYONE HERE WITH QUESTIONS, ESPECIALLY AS EARLY AS PAGE 2, AND ELSEWHERE ON OTHER THREADS. DO I BELIEVE HE DIDN'T SEE MINE. NOT FOR A MINUTE. and as i've said, he can do whatever he wants, he owns the company!--NOPE, I AM NOT CURRENTLY A MEMBER, BUT I WAS FOR MANY YEARS, AND I HOPE IT DOESN'T COME TO A DOLLARS AND SENSE (HA) QUESTION, I'VE PAID MY DUES. AS I SAID, I SIMPLY ASKED QUESTIONS. I GUESS A MEMBER FOR MANY YEARS MEANS ZERO, AND TRUST ME, THAT IS COOL WITH ME. I WAS TAUGHT HERE A COUPLE YEARS BACK, THAT WE DON'T ASK HARD QUESTIONS, AND IF WE DO, IF WE MAKE A STUPID ERROR (AS I DID ONCE...) OR DARE WE HAVE AN OPINON CONTRARY TO THOSE OF US HERE WHO HAVE LESS EXPERIENCE THEN SOME (YEP, I'VE MADE THAT MISTAKE TOO), WELL, I GUESS I'M TRYING TO SAY I GUESS YOU ARE MORE EXPERIENCED AUB--BUT ARE YOU RIGHT? NOPE. --"REFUSED" TO GO SOMEPLACE? THAT IS A RIDICULOUS STATEMENT. I DIDN'T REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING. I AM CHOSING NOT TO GO. AS I TRIED TO SAY, THE ROLL OF THE DICE TO "LEARN" SOMEHOW THAT WE IN SOME PEOPLE'S EYES ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH, WELL HELL, I'VE ALREADY LEARNED THAT LESSON--AND I TRULY BELIEVE TAXI HAS BEEN AN EXCELLENT TEACHER--ALBEIT NOT ALWAYS CORRECT AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED. yep, keep the cards and letters, we've ALL done this act before.--SORRY AUB, I AM NOT SELF SERVING NOR PRETENTIOUS, NO MATTER HOW IT MAY LOOK TO YOU. SEVERAL OTHERS HERE KNOW ME. SOME LIKE ME, SOME DON'T. MIGHT BE THE CASE WITH YOU TOO I IMAGINE...hell, i truly may just be a stupid dude. i have never RULED THAT ONE OUT. how about you? and no, i did not just call you stupid. a question...--NOPE, I DO NOT BELIEVE AFTER SOME OF THE TRIVIAL CRAP MICHAEL HAS ANSWERED HERE AND ELSEWHERE IN THE LAST MONTH, THAT I DESERVED ANYTHING BUT A RESPONSE....BUT DID I EXPECT ONE? ACTUALLY AND HONESTLY, NO. I EXPECT PRETTY MUCH ZERO FROM THE TAXI LEADERSHIP. IT PICKS AND CHOSES WHO TO SUPPORT. AND THAT IS IT'S RIGHT. I GET BUSINESS VERY WELL, AND I GET PEOPLE EVEN BETTER. hell, listen to a song or 10... now more importantly, chits and to all my other friends that i have met at the last rally and here, if i thought for a moment that there would be an audience for my songs in Nashvegas, as i said in one of my very FIRST posts in this thread (might have been a related one...), i would drop everything and be there the next day. HENCE, MY MAYBE STUPID, BUT HONEST, questions/statement on page two. read what you want INTO what i said, but for christ's sake, READ IT as it was said.damn, for some of you who know me, you can only imagine how tough this kinda conversation is. and for those that don't--well you just don't have a clue. all the best, talk among yourselves, i'm done with this one. and Aub, great job, your work is done...right?warren hein

[feaker]

WarrenI love ya man.paul

[jchitty]

Hey, Warren....I hope you don't think I was being critical of your initial post saying that you wouldn't be coming to Nashville.....that's why I said, "if you come to Nashville, I'll give you a big 'ole hug." I was only saying that I'd love to meet you 'coz we've been such good friends on the forum. I never attended the Rally in L. A., so I thought it would be cool to meet you in person.And while I have respect for Aub, and I know he's passionate about his opinions, I didn't agree with his assessment of you being self serving and pretentious. Statements like that put people on the defensive, and they end up creating a pissing contest....which always ends up as an exercise in futility.

[spindrift]

Hi, everybody - my real name is Mark and I rarely participate in these threads, but... I have been a very happy TAXI member since the beginning (2004), getting forwards in Country and other types of music with very few songs to my credit, and getting a good education from the critiques along the way - especially from the very constructive comments made on a large number of Returns. Within three years I got contracts with at least five Music Libraries, and my music has been used on three national TV broadcasts. Given the nature of today's Country hits, I rarely listen to them and really don't think much about them when I write. It therefore surprised and delighted me when I recently got a country song forwarded to an artist - recording in L.A. however, not Nashville! Last November I joined NSAI and have submitted several songs to them for critiques. What a disaster - a waste of time and money for a writer like me. Each time it has been clear that the NSAI reviewer is completely obsessed with whether or not the song might be a hit in today's market with today's stars, and nothing else matters. This is relatively unimportant to me and I was hoping for suggestions in other directions - the kind of helpful thoughts that I get from TAXI constantly. TAXI reviewers are able to think outside the box that Nashville seems trapped in today (with declining revenues). I thought of going to Nashville for this Panel on June 8, but will save my money for a TAXI Rally instead. Why am I writing this? I am hoping that those of you going will try to get the Nashville panelists to admit that Nashville is a very ingrown, incestuous town with all too many writers working for Music Row publishers who easily crank out today's hits (often by "committee") and are much better positioned to get their material cut by the hit artists. Favors given, favors returned, keeps the Nashville world revolving ("The family that plays together, stays together"). NSAI's motto is "It all starts with the song" - does anyone really believe this is still true today? It all starts with very expensive promotion of the artists' visual images - looking is more important today than listening. In the scheme of things, the song usually seems in fact quite unimportant. O.K., maybe a good hook. The rest is very soon forgotten, because it is forgettable, and because the audience doesn't actually learn songs as people used to when they sang together. When these Nashville panelists try to explain and demonstrate that you need to "get to the next level" to have a Country hit, don't be discouraged. Please listen again to Contemporary Country radio again and ask yourself questions and draw some honest conclusions about that level of creativity as well as the role of very expensive recording and promotion of much mediocre material. You can probably write just as well, and may already have done it. Then ask whether you really have a chance to compete with all the hungry writers in Nashville who know somebody, or whose publisher-employer knows somebody. When a panelist offers a few examples of "outsiders'" hits, think numbers and percentages. Depending on your answers and your situation, either go to work in Nashville or change your goals and targets. Many thanks to Michael and everyone at TAXI for genuine interest and hard efforts helping TAXI members like me to gain access to the wide, wild world of Music. When you live on a island in Maine as I do, you need all the help you can get! I look forward to reading reports on how this Nashville/Country Panel goes and hope to meet many of you at a Rally. Mark

[perrysmith]

Jun 1, 2009, 7:42am, spindrift wrote: I am hoping that those of you going will try to get the Nashville panelists to admit that Nashville is a very ingrown, incestuous town with all too many writers working for Music Row publishers who easily crank out today's hits (often by "committee") and are much better positioned to get their material cut by the hit artists. Hey, Mark, tell us how you really feel! Kudos to you for your good work and success. I vote that Warren Hein comes to Nashville to discuss your points with the panel. What do you say, Warren?-Perry

[heinsite]

thanks chits, paul-- and mark you make allot of sense.perry, i believe that based on what Sherrill already told us and so many more at the rally and elsewhere, that argument would be a VERY short one!...LOL. heck, you're the lawyer. i'm not in much of an arguin' mood nowadays. i'm just trying to let my music speak for itself, trying to get it in hands via libraries, writing of course, and getting some opinions from this cool forum--and trying not to be misquoted--LOL. actually have 2 c/w tunes coming up, one a rocker being produced right now, and one a female sing that i'm finishing here now which won't be produced until july. and that will be it for c/w for awhile for me--that will give me 8 quality tunes to pitch in that genre, but frankly as some have said, time to refocus and get back to other genres where the chances go from zero to 1 on a scale of 10,000-- have a great time all, chits i pm'd you back lovely person!the best,wh

[ontariolightning]

Jun 1, 2009, 7:42am, spindrift wrote:Hi, everybody - my real name is Mark and I rarely participate in these threads, but... I have been a very happy TAXI member since the beginning (2004), getting forwards in Country and other types of music with very few songs to my credit, and getting a good education from the critiques along the way - especially from the very constructive comments made on a large number of Returns. Within three years I got contracts with at least five Music Libraries, and my music has been used on three national TV broadcasts. Given the nature of today's Country hits, I rarely listen to them and really don't think much about them when I write. It therefore surprised and delighted me when I recently got a country song forwarded to an artist - recording in L.A. however, not Nashville! Last November I joined NSAI and have submitted several songs to them for critiques. What a disaster - a waste of time and money for a writer like me. Each time it has been clear that the NSAI reviewer is completely obsessed with whether or not the song might be a hit in today's market with today's stars, and nothing else matters. This is relatively unimportant to me and I was hoping for suggestions in other directions - the kind of helpful thoughts that I get from TAXI constantly. TAXI reviewers are able to think outside the box that Nashville seems trapped in today (with declining revenues). I thought of going to Nashville for this Panel on June 8, but will save my money for a TAXI Rally instead. Why am I writing this? I am hoping that those of you going will try to get the Nashville panelists to admit that Nashville is a very ingrown, incestuous town with all too many writers working for Music Row publishers who easily crank out today's hits (often by "committee") and are much better positioned to get their material cut by the hit artists. Favors given, favors returned, keeps the Nashville world revolving ("The family that plays together, stays together"). NSAI's motto is "It all starts with the song" - does anyone really believe this is still true today? It all starts with very expensive promotion of the artists' visual images - looking is more important today than listening. In the scheme of things, the song usually seems in fact quite unimportant. O.K., maybe a good hook. The rest is very soon forgotten, because it is forgettable, and because the audience doesn't actually learn songs as people used to when they sang together. When these Nashville panelists try to explain and demonstrate that you need to "get to the next level" to have a Country hit, don't be discouraged. Please listen again to Contemporary Country radio again and ask yourself questions and draw some honest conclusions about that level of creativity as well as the role of very expensive recording and promotion of much mediocre material. You can probably write just as well, and may already have done it. Then ask whether you really have a chance to compete with all the hungry writers in Nashville who know somebody, or whose publisher-employer knows somebody. When a panelist offers a few examples of "outsiders'" hits, think numbers and percentages. Depending on your answers and your situation, either go to work in Nashville or change your goals and targets. Many thanks to Michael and everyone at TAXI for genuine interest and hard efforts helping TAXI members like me to gain access to the wide, wild world of Music. When you live on a island in Maine as I do, you need all the help you can get! I look forward to reading reports on how this Nashville/Country Panel goes and hope to meet many of you at a Rally. Mark Hey Mark, I have to chime in here, if you want to write hits for next year you have to know what the hits are in the present, people listen to the music also, go on youtube you will find at least one cover of every song on the country charts as well as other chartsyou will find people are listening and loving these songs that were written by committee, so maybe it's just you and other amateur songwriters that notice a problem, the younger crowd is still loving it and that younger crowd is who you should keep in mind while writing a songJust my opinion

[aubreyz]

Jun 1, 2009, 5:34am, jchitty wrote: And while I have respect for Aub, and I know he's passionate about his opinions, I didn't agree with his assessment of you being self serving and pretentious. Statements like that put people on the defensive, and they end up creating a pissing contest....which always ends up as an exercise in futility. Point well taken. I probably should have chosen the higher road, but called it how I saw it. It just annoys me that ML & Taxi in general bends over backwards so many times for those with squeaky wheel syndrome, and then gets slammed for something insignificant like "failing" to respond to a post. Right or wrong, that was my observation and opinion and I have just as much right to stand up and say "reality check" as those who go off on their little conspiracy tirades.Warren, I would respond point by point to your post, but there really seems to be no point. In all honesty, I've read the caps laden response a few times now and I'm still scratching my head. That was somehow intended as a rebuttal?? Unintentionally, I think you've probably reinforced my initial opinion better than I ever could have.I mean come on. What is this crap about "learning not to ask tough questions"? Really? I mean you have blatantly accused ML of purposefully ignoring you and that Taxi chooses who it supports-- like there's some big plot out there to keep Warren down. The thing that gets under my skin is that ML provides this forum freely, and people like you blast opinion based nonsense without having the facts or common decency to pick up the phone and talk to the guy. How do you "know" you were purposely and personally ignored? Are you also psychic?But let's get past the personal stuff. Okay, I'll admit to not being perfect, not always choosing my words correctly - I have even been stupid a time or two and of course am not always right-- but what's the real point here? Who's right and who's wrong? Or is there a higher goal?I don't have a horse in this particular race. I'm not trying to crack the Nashville code. But whatever the goal is, there are two things that are vital. Your product has to be incredible if you have incredible goals, and your relationships and connections need to be just as incredible. I've heard some very good country stuff around here, but I've not heard anything on the level of "The Chair", "The Dance" or "I Love This Bar". I think the real crux of the matter should be, how do we write songs like that? How does a writer get to the level where he/she writes an undeniable hit? If country was the game I was playing, I'd hock one of my kids to go to this listening panel. Why? Because I know ML well enough to know that he wants us to succeed. He wants to provide us with the tools to not just pass the screener bar, but to compete with the best out there. How do I know that? Vital point number 2: Relationships.The level of competition in this biz is staggering. How many humans on the planet right now are trying to write country hits? There are so many choices for artists/publishers/producers. For many top artist albums, thousands of songs go through the mill before the top 12 to 15 are chosen. With so many choices, if a writer is unreasonable, illogical, hard to work with or not very educated about the industry then it is going to be difficult to build the kind of relationships necessary to even get in the running. Of course there's the occasional idiot who just happens to be a genius that would be an exception to the rule, but for most of us our people skills need to be on the same professional level as our musical skills.Instead of jumping up and down demanding that someone tell you if your stuff is good enough, why not keep working and writing using every available resource to improve your skills. As a writer, that's more productive and will also go a long way toward developing relationships.So you can take my initial post as some kind of personal slam, but it wasn't intended that way. The real reality check is not just the opportunity to hear inside information from a top listening panel. What possible benefit do you expect to reap by ranting on this forum? You can be factually right and still look like a jerk. Who's going to want to work with someone who will post accusations on a public forum without first talking to the person accused? Whether or not any "industry" elite frequents these forums is not even the point. It's the principle that is important.I've had my problems with Taxi. Me and a few screeners have gone round and round. I've called that 800 number several times to make my case about things I've had issues with. So you can't justifiably accuse me of being a Kool Aid drinker. But because of Taxi, I now have some pretty incredible contacts. I just got an email from one of the top writers/producers in my genre. I have his cell number and he takes my calls. All because of relationships that have been developed thanks to Taxi. How stupid would it be for me to call this person and say, "I really think my stuff is good enough, why won't you sign me?" I know the duty is mine to produce stuff that is undeniably hit material, and because of this and several other relationships, I've had the opportunity to get feedback from some of the best ears in the industry. When I succeed at that goal, the groundwork has already been laid. Sure, I could spend my time complaining about why this track didn't get forwarded... blah, blah, blah -- but how does that benefit me? It's difficult to throw mud around and not get muddy.Why can ML make a few phone calls and line up a panel with heavy hitters like this? Relationships. There's so much that we can learn from this guy and this company, and he's eager to share.Warren, I apologize for putting you on the defensive. It probably wasn't necessary and I do get the irony that it made me look muddy too. I'm just fed up with this crap, and not just from you in particular. Time and time again complainers get coddled to. You know what? I've never had a CD played at a listening panel either. I've never complained and got a free trip to tour Taxi. I've not canceled my membership and then been offered a screening by Nashville insiders. I think it would be entirely justified to complain that squeaky wheels sometimes get undeserved fringe benefits. But why in the heck would I complain? Taxi has given me the tools to improve my skills, and it has worked. Taxi has given me the opportunity to network with some of the top people in the industry and it has worked. Taxi has provided opportunities to get my songs signed, and it has worked.How's that complaining working for ya'?Aub

[mojobone]

Nashville's been "ingrown and incestuous" for nigh on fifty years; probably longer, heck I'm only forty-seven, myself. (and favors and back-scratchin' go a long ways in LA, too, come to think) I do think it's a shame that they're looking for today's hits for today's stars, cuz I'm focused on writing tomorrow's. I think Mark missed the mark somewhat when it comes to listening and current audiences. Bob Lefsetz wrote jes' the other day 'bout all the fans in the front row at Taylor Swift's concert singin' all the words to all the songs-must be some good writing goin' on somewheres.