The Neverending Mix

[grandmatarkin]

Mixing and remixing drives me crazy... I'm just never happy with some songs... I know I'm getting better, but it's really taking away from my songwriting in the process... Too much time spent tweaking this, that, etc.So I completely feel where you're coming from!Dave

[jeffe]

This is something most of us probably go through. If we knew exactly what we wanted to do with it we'd sort it out in not time at all. I suppose it's all down to the learning experience.I've posted a link to a track in 'Shameless promotion' for that very reason. I've had replies and I'm over the moon that someone else has cast a critical eye on it, because I sometimes sit there. I know it's not right, but I can't really identify what it is. Well, there's a possibility that someone else will.If you are putting your tracks out for opinion. One important thing to remember is that each of us grows up with our own mixture of styles. So one persons criticism might be based on their likes. I think it's best to take more notice of those who share similar interests in music.Striving for a better mix!

[mixopenta]

Thought I'd stick my neck out with my humble thoughts on mixing.. Although this might not address the original post, I'm hoping somebody finds some of it useful.I didn't see anyone mention the importance of having a good listening environment (sorry if I missed that). If you're mixing in a "living room", try not to put the monitors too close to a wall. If it's a living-room, see to that there's enough furniture acting as bass-trapping. Think along the lines of that bass builds up more in corners than anywhere else. The monitors doesn't need to be some high powered, loud mega bass reproduction speakers, - just flat. Putting the speakers on a bookshelf is not a good idea, as there's a risk it will act as a sounding board leaving even flat speakers useless. I put my speakers on a tower of bricks, and it works great.I read this trick once, I adopted it and it works like a charm every time, at least for me:When you're done recording, leave it for a couple of days,-week. Then start fresh by pulling ALL faders up to -10db with the master fader at 0. Don't pull the faders up one by one. - Listen to the whole lot! Then, monitor at an extremely low level, less than speech level, while pulling up the faders for tracks that you think is too quiet (This should be feasible even in an apartment).Do not put on any fx, or eq at this stage. All pans should be pointing straight up (mono), even the stereo tracks. When you think everything is audible and pretty much in balance, you can start tweaking eq, if necessary soloing those tracks you think might need some heavier eq treatment. And when eq'ing try to think 'cutting' as opposed to boosting. This is much harder if you're not used to it, but if something is muddy, instead of boosting the hi end, try cutting some low end instead. This takes a bit of time and effort, but it will pay. A regular eq should be to remove, or reduce the amount of frequencies that are out of the instruments range. E.g. a splash cymbal won't need frequencies below 100-150Hz.After that you might want to add some fx and make the pan adjustments. Every now and then during the whole mixing process you will have to crosscheck with headphones, or preferably with at least two sets of speakers.Breaks when mixing is also often underestimated, don't mix for more than 6 hours, preferably 4. and take a lot of breaks in between. When you think you have a decent mix, put that on CD or any other media of your convenience, and start checking on all the systems mentioned earlier in this thread.These steps can (and probably will) have to be repeated a couple of times before it can be regarded as a keeper, but what I've found is a great way of approaching a mix is doing it in an organized way.If you're mixing on a DAW, the first settings will be saved making it easier to make smaller adjustments after the "all systems" check.For what it's worth, I hope it helps(sorry for the bad English, I hope it's understandable)Ulf

[jeffe]

Perfectly understandable. It's well in advance of anything I do. I like to think I write good songs well. I just don't record good songs well. Thanks for the advice Ulf. I get the impression you've been doing this for some time. A studio hermit

[mixopenta]

Your suspicion is correct, I am (or was) a studio hermit... I used to make a living out of it, but I still have a whole lot more to learn. And for me it's the other way around - I make crappy songs sound decent Mixing is one of the steps in the recording process I actually enjoy the most...heck, sometimes I record something just to mix The real kick sets in when you've been mixing at a really low level for awhile, and when you think you've got the balance right, just crank it up really, really loud...thats like inhaling illegal stuff...(that is, when it sounds good) The experience of never being quite content with a mix (I have my fair share of those moments too ever so often), indicates to me that something is wrong with the listening environment. Not that having a comfortable monitoring situation eliminates the need of double checking in other systems, but there's a greater chance of success if it's a closer match to one's vision from the start.Another thing I find valuable (might be a personal thing), is letting other people listening in while you're double checking. They don't need to venture into sharing their opinions, in fact it's better if they keep their mouths shut. They only need to pretend they're listening. But what they do is boosting my analytical senses in a more critical way just by being present. You can sit for hours alone in front of your studio monitors slowly drifting into acceptance of just about anything, not noticing you're getting completely out of line... (oh gosh, that was a bit fluffy. I think my ears have been inhaling too much acid jazz lately..its getting to my brain - oh noooh!!

[jeffe]

There's a song in that

[jeffe]

I have a ballad under production, that has a rather odd theme. Mainly it's because is one of those 'beautiful' type songs. Yet the subject is not beautiful. Oh, I do love thinking outside the box.Anyway, If you're interested. I'll tell you when I've got it up on Taxi, and maybe you could have a listen and immediately know everything that's wrong with it. Let me know and I'll PM you when it's there. Probably a few days.I have to add that I am pitching songs only, so my vocals don't matter (They're all over the place). I am assuming that as long as they can see the potential in my songs, they are alright to submit.We can't be good at everything. Something I'm well aware of. However, I am quite confident that a lot of my songs are good. I just need to make them sound good.It's the advice form others on here, that will help me move my pigeon steps closer.

[jeffe]

Quote:I have a ballad under production, that has a rather odd theme. Mainly it's because is one of those 'beautiful' type songs. Yet the subject is not beautiful. Oh, I do love thinking outside the box.Anyway, If you're interested. I'll tell you when I've got it up on Taxi, and maybe you could have a listen and immediately know everything that's wrong with it. Let me know and I'll PM you when it's there. Probably a few days.I have to add that I am pitching songs only, so my vocals don't matter (They're all over the place). I am assuming that as long as they can see the potential in my songs, they are alright to submit.We can't be good at everything. Something I'm well aware of. However, I am quite confident that a lot of my songs are good. I just need to make them sound good.It's the advice from others on here, that will help me move my pigeon steps closer.

[hummingbird]

Quote:I have a ballad under production, that has a rather odd theme. Mainly it's because is one of those 'beautiful' type songs. Yet the subject is not beautiful. Oh, I do love thinking outside the box.Anyway, If you're interested. I'll tell you when I've got it up on Taxi, and maybe you could have a listen and immediately know everything that's wrong with it. Let me know and I'll PM you when it's there. Probably a few days.I have to add that I am pitching songs only, so my vocals don't matter (They're all over the place). I am assuming that as long as they can see the potential in my songs, they are alright to submit.We can't be good at everything. Something I'm well aware of. However, I am quite confident that a lot of my songs are good. I just need to make them sound good.It's the advice form others on here, that will help me move my pigeon steps closer.The information that I have is that simple demos and even worktapes can be used to pitch songs if the playing and singing is top notch. Thus, even though I am a professional singer, I've been encouraged to hire demo singers who more accurately put across certain styles, like rock and country.In other words, I sound like Enya. If I write a Kelly Clarkson-style song, I need to hire someone who sounds a la Kelly & gives a strong performance, if I plan to pitch the song.H

[arkjack]

Instruments, vocals, track engineering, mix engineering, songwriting, arranging, composing, practice makes perfect.... and knowledge is cumulative... keep walking forward, even if its baby steps... for me the perseverance is paying off... (though no forwards yet)... I am improving and each day... The mix is never done.... only released in a particular state at a point in time....ArkJack