This one took the wind out of my sails...

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ljweber70
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This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by ljweber70 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:15 pm

Hey all,I submitted "Down At The Bay" (link below) to the following listing:Early 1960s-style SURF POP SONGS (with vocals) a la Jan & Dean and the Beach Boys are sought by an LA-based Music Library owned by veterans of that industry. No lyrical restrictions (but no profanity). Great performances are essential, especially vocally. They offer a non-exclusive, 50/50 split deal - you keep your original copyrights. Broadcast quality needed. Please submit one to three songs online or per CD, include lyrics. All submissions will be screened on a YES/NO BASIS ONLY - NO CRITIQUES FROM TAXI. For ground submissions, please enclose a S.A.S.E. if you would like a response. Submissions must be received no later than Sept. 24, 2007. TAXI # Y070924SPhttp://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?b ... D=5791904I received the email today informing me that it was not forwarded. Although I'm new to Taxi, I've had a few forwards already -- and In my opionion, this was by far the most "dead on" piece I've done. Needless to say, the wind was taken out of my optimistic sails this evening regarding my future with Taxi.Perhaps someone can tell me what I did wrong...Thanks,Larry

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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by clonsberry » Thu Oct 04, 2007 3:55 pm

Yeah, I just had one of those too. I have been waiting to submit to this listing for some time. Had a song. Did the custom critique. Scored reasonably high on it. Music 7. Lyrics 6. Marketability 7. Arrangement 8. Production 6. Engineering 6.The custom did suggest I play with the verse melody some, which I did when I redid the vocals. (It was also had some interest from another publisher. Enough for them to ask for more. But it's probably my most pop-ish cut so I don't know how far that will go.) I thought it was a good fit for this listing.The Director of A&R/Creative at one of the largest Publishers in the world is seeking amazing, very current-sounding MALE TEEN/DANCE POP SONGS a la Jesse McCartney, Zac Efron, Aaron Carter, Corbin Bleu, etc. Great hooks, solid lyrics, memorable melodies - all are essential. Uptempos are preferred. We'll be very selective with this one as they're only seeking hit songs. Please submit one to three songs online or per CD, include lyrics. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Sept. 17, 2007.Tell Me, Tell MeThe return rated it: Music 5. Lyrics 7. Marketability 5. Arrangement 5. Production 5. Engineering 6. Musicianship 5. Lead Vocal 7. It also suggested it might be okay with a rhythmic twist or unexpected pacing change that catches the listener off guard and grabs attention. (Seems more like black arts sometimes.) If a custom critique was that different from a screener's critique, I'm not sure what the custom really means.But, it is what it is. So.. we take the punch in the mouth and get back up and try again. This is the persistence part, I guess. At least we're around people who feel our pain.

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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by hummingbird » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:35 pm

I agree, Down at the Bay is absolutely on target for this listing. A great song!! I wonder if the issue was production (so hard when listings don't have critiques). I could be wrong, but it sounds like there's no variety in the drums, as far as I can tell... meaning they sound like loops or a drum machine. Others here may be able to shed more light on the issue. The vocals and vocal harmonies are spot on, IMO.H
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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by hummingbird » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:42 pm

Quote:Yeah, I just had one of those too. I have been waiting to submit to this listing for some time. Had a song. Did the custom critique. Scored reasonably high on it. Music 7. Lyrics 6. Marketability 7. Arrangement 8. Production 6. Engineering 6.The custom did suggest I play with the verse melody some, which I did when I redid the vocals. (It was also had some interest from another publisher. Enough for them to ask for more. But it's probably my most pop-ish cut so I don't know how far that will go.) I thought it was a good fit for this listing.The Director of A&R/Creative at one of the largest Publishers in the world is seeking amazing, very current-sounding MALE TEEN/DANCE POP SONGS a la Jesse McCartney, Zac Efron, Aaron Carter, Corbin Bleu, etc. Great hooks, solid lyrics, memorable melodies - all are essential. Uptempos are preferred. We'll be very selective with this one as they're only seeking hit songs. Please submit one to three songs online or per CD, include lyrics. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Sept. 17, 2007.Tell Me, Tell MeThe return rated it: Music 5. Lyrics 7. Marketability 5. Arrangement 5. Production 5. Engineering 6. Musicianship 5. Lead Vocal 7. It also suggested it might be okay with a rhythmic twist or unexpected pacing change that catches the listener off guard and grabs attention. (Seems more like black arts sometimes.) If a custom critique was that different from a screener's critique, I'm not sure what the custom really means.But, it is what it is. So.. we take the punch in the mouth and get back up and try again. This is the persistence part, I guess. At least we're around people who feel our pain.I'm not familiar with teen pop/dance songs but I think the screener in this instance was looking at the song within the framework of a very high bar listing. It is a nice song . I think you have a nice groove but it needs to be more present. It does feel as though it needs more intensity & more contrast. I'm not sure if the vocal really reaches out and grabs you. This is crucial in a song pitch.Just my uneducated opinion. Hang in there... I got two returns today too
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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by clonsberry » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:07 pm

Quote:I'm not familiar with teen pop/dance songs but I think the screener in this instance was looking at the song within the framework of a very high bar listing. It is a nice song . I think you have a nice groove but it needs to be more present. It does feel as though it needs more intensity & more contrast. I'm not sure if the vocal really reaches out and grabs you. This is crucial in a song pitch.Just my uneducated opinion. Hang in there... I got two returns today too Well, I can't imagine you have any uneducated opinions left laying around. Ah well, doesn't matter. I've got a bunch to say but it doesn't help and I don't want to be a whiner. Can't get sidetracked by the letdowns. On to the next one, right?

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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by lboogie77 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:52 pm

Hey Larry, Dont know a thing about 60's surf stuff. But for whats its worth thought was a good tune. Well mixed, and great guitar stuff. Dunno what happened ... Add it to the caddy, there will other opps.Cheers77

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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by ljweber70 » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:20 pm

Quote:I agree, Down at the Bay is absolutely on target for this listing. A great song!! I wonder if the issue was production (so hard when listings don't have critiques). I could be wrong, but it sounds like there's no variety in the drums, as far as I can tell... meaning they sound like loops or a drum machine. Others here may be able to shed more light on the issue. The vocals and vocal harmonies are spot on, IMO.HI don't know what to think.... I listened to the Beach Boys and Jan and Dean stuff for research and noticed that the drums we're almost non-existent on some tunes -- nothing fancy, just straight forward grooves. I hope my drums don't sound like a drum machine since they are a set of Mapex maples Maybe I'm just a bad engineer, I don't know -- Vicki, thanks for the vocal Kudos -- especially from a vocal teacher! Thanks,Larry

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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by matto » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:46 pm

Quote:I received the email today informing me that it was not forwarded. Although I'm new to Taxi, I've had a few forwards already -- and In my opionion, this was by far the most "dead on" piece I've done. Needless to say, the wind was taken out of my optimistic sails this evening regarding my future with Taxi.Perhaps someone can tell me what I did wrong...Now now Larry, one questionable rejection and you're talking quitting talk ...methinks it's time for a session with Dr Dave and his rolled up newspaper I noticed the listings asked for "great performances, especially vocally". IMHO everything on this track qualifies as a great performance, except for the lead vocal. It's good, don't get me wrong, but especially at the top it sounds a little hesitant and pitchy...just not really committed. It gets better as you go along but the beginning is so crucial cause that's the first thing everybody hears...so I think a screener could reasonably find this not to be "great vocal performance" if the listing party makes special mention that they're sticklers for vocals.That being said, I think the track is certainly on target and I like everything else, including the great bg vocal arrangement, so I think you wouldn't be out of line calling Taxi tomorrow and asking Sebastian to take another listen and see what he thinks.I've never done this personally, I take my rejections like a man ( ...been writing too much sports music recently) and figure that another opportunity will come along for the song...they almost always do.If this was my song, I would take another very close and critical listen, redo the lead (at least at the top), and see if there's anything else I could do to kick the tune up another notch.Remember the ultimate goal is not to have the track forwarded, but to have it used in something, or hopefully a lot of things.There will be plenty of opportunities for a timeless track like this, and the better it is the more it will get used.matto

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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by aubreyz » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:57 pm

Hey Larry,This is a pretty good song. But taking a look at the details rather than the song as a whole there may be a few things to think about. One is the listing itself Quote:Great performances are essential, especially vocally.Phrases like that indicate that a client has asked Taxi to be VERY picky. So... being picky, there are a few places where your vocal seems a bit strained for this genre-- almost like if it were down a step or so it would be in the "sweet spot" of your range. It's a good performance, but great? Not sure. Also, there are some 60's elements in there for sure, but the overall feel I get is more of a Jimmy Buffet thing-- almost country in places. That's not a bad thing. The song is very cool. It just may not have been authentic early 60's enough for this listing.Lyrically, a couple of things made me blink:The surfin's top of the line -- it rhymes, but top of the line isn't exactly what a surfer would use to describe surfing. Seems a little forced. Same thing here:Wanna dance all night yeah they're right on the moneyIt rhymes, but right on the money seems like a cliche used out of context just to make the rhyme.It's a very cool track. Nice work. I'm not on great speakers right now so I won't comment on production.Aub

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Re: This one took the wind out of my sails...

Post by matto » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:24 pm

Quote:The Director of A&R/Creative at one of the largest Publishers in the world is seeking amazing, very current-sounding MALE TEEN/DANCE POP SONGS a la Jesse McCartney, Zac Efron, Aaron Carter, Corbin Bleu, etc. Great hooks, solid lyrics, memorable melodies - all are essential. Uptempos are preferred. We'll be very selective with this one as they're only seeking hit songs. Please submit one to three songs online or per CD, include lyrics. All submissions will be screened and critiqued by TAXI and must be received no later than Sept. 17, 2007.Tell Me, Tell Me If a custom critique was that different from a screener's critique, I'm not sure what the custom really means.Hi Chris,Please remember that a positive custom critique is no gurantee for subsequent forwards. For one thing a custom isn't done in context of a listing and has no bar...and this listing had a REALLY high bar...doesn't get much higher than this.To be dead honest with you, a publisher of the caliber of this listing party would reject this song simply on the basis of the really cliched lyric in your chorus. They probably wouldn't even listen to the song if they saw this lyric first...that's how brutal it is . "Come on tell me tell me say that you'll always love me" just doesn't cut it at this level...it's something we all find out sooner or later. Sure there's songs with lyrics like these on the radio, but they don't come from nobody writers like us thru Taxi. They come from the artist's sister or somebody from their inner circle, or most likely of all, from the artist themselves.I found this out the HARD way years ago when a song of mine with the lyrics "Let's go back, back to the way we were, let's go back, back to those better times etc etc (I need that "dog vomit" smilie here ) was savagely taken apart by a top publisher from Sony and held up as an example of what NOT to do... Trust me, it's even a LOT harder to take when it happens in a room full of people. But hey...that's how you learn. I gotta be honest with you I think your custom critiquer let you down if (s)he didn't point out that this hook just doesn't cut it lyrically. Cause that's really your biggest problem with this song. A insurmountable problem really if you're trying to pitch this to artists.One thing you could do is get a kick ass singer to sing this, bring the production up a few notches to a real pro level and pitch it to libraries. IMHO this would be your best bet at getting something out of this particular song.Sorry if I'm brutally honest here. It's tough to hear stuff like the above. But...I'm secretly thankful to that publisher from Sony (still remember his name even though this was probably close to 15 years ago) because that one painful experience he caused me taught me what I really needed to know. And it was one of those pivotal moments that sent me off on my way to eventual success.Best of luck to you!matto

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