Tips for Button Endings?

[ggalen]

May I ask those of you with great experience at writing timed pieces at different lengths for tips about how you go about it?I suspect there are tried and true techniques that make the process go more smoothly.I have Sonar and can fit-to-time, but that can only take me so far. It can adjust the tempo, but often I don't want a different tempo...and I have been just snipping out measures.Also, I was wondering how many beats you tend to make your endings? Does it differ much when you are doing a 00:30 and a 3:00?Any online resources you could point me to?Many thanks!

[davewalton]

Jun 18, 2008, 3:16pm, ggalen wrote:May I ask those of you with great experience at writing timed pieces at different lengths for tips about how you go about it?I suspect there are tried and true techniques that make the process go more smoothly.I have Sonar and can fit-to-time, but that can only take me so far. It can adjust the tempo, but often I don't want a different tempo...and I have been just snipping out measures.Also, I was wondering how many beats you tend to make your endings? Does it differ much when you are dong a 00:30 and a 3:00?Any online resources you could point me to?Many thanks!Other than tempo, I don't know of any other way to manage time with our music. I time everything by tempo and by managing the tempo. Having said that, "uneven" measures and other such things can be used effectively if they're done right. Overall though I don't know of a magic formula that doesn't involve tempo or tempo management.

[stevebarden]

When you say a "button ending" you need to be specific as to when no more sound can occur. If you're doing a 30-second commercial and you hit a button you must ensure that the reverb tail runs out before you go to black. If it's a 5-second tail then that last note better be hit by 0:25!Programs like Sonar (which I also use) are good at adjusting tempos. You could do it old-skool style and pull out a stop watch. Start by figuring out an approximate tempo and then do the math (adding extra beats for that tail) and you can get really close to knowing how many bars and beats of music you need. You can always fine tune to the millesecond by squeezing or stretching the digital audio later on.Steve

[mazz]

That's why they invented 2/4 and 3/4 bars, my friend!Seriously, other than changing tempo, which it sounds like you don't want to do, musical (I'll say it again, musical) use of "beat challenged" bars will go a long way toward helping you in this regard. I've done it a lot and continue to do so as we speak in my film scoring. If I have to write a 60 second piece, I place a marker at 60 seconds exactly (60 seconds is 60 seconds regardless of tempo) and change the tempo and bar lengths so that my piece ends at exactly that marker. I also take in to account any "ring out" of cymbals and reverbs and include that as part of the piece. All audio is out at 59.99 seconds. I might write a phrase and chord progression first and figure out what the form should be and then shoehorn that as musically as possible in to the time frame. Basically your creative "master" is that hard ending time. I find it a real creative challenge to make a complete statement in 60 seconds.If you're editing down an existing piece, that's a different discussion.Hope this helps,Mazz

[ggalen]

Thanks for the kind replies so far!I am willing to change tempo some! It's just that making a :30 into a :45 slows the beat way too much.Mazz, what you said about the marker is the type of thing I figured experienced people do.Steve, yes, I hadn't thought about the digital audio since I tend to work so much with midi... thanks for reminding me that after I have bounced to audio I can use the algorithms to fine tune it.

[davewalton]

Jun 18, 2008, 4:44pm, ggalen wrote:Thanks for the kind replies so far!I am willing to change tempo some! It's just that making a :30 into a :45 slows the beat way too much.That's definitely "add an extra part" time.

[ggalen]

Thanks, Dave. Part of it is I think so much in 8-bar patterns. Too much pop music.

[mazz]

Jun 18, 2008, 5:17pm, ggalen wrote:Thanks, Dave. Part of it is I think so much in 8-bar patterns. Too much pop music.Write away from your instrument, even if you just think about it in your mind. This will start to free you from the tyranny of the hand patterns you've developed as a player. These will eventually serve you as a composer, but the composer mind needs to have these patterns as just another arrow in the quiver, not the driver of the musical bus (had enough bad metaphors yet? muuuhhaaa )Seriously, if you have a good melody, it will withstand being wrangled in to a 7 or 6 1/2 bar pattern. If you've been writing this long, you can certainly figure out how to make an ending happen within 5 beats! But you gotta get the music out of your hands, conceptually. Playing and improvisation serve my composing and are powerful tools but the music is not in the playing, the playing brings forth the composition.Blah, Blah, Blah, Cheers!!Mazz

[devin]

[munches popcorn] ** (yes, I stole that from some other great posters I've lurked in the past week...just as I'm lurking now)

[ggalen]

Mazz,Thanks for the wise thoughts. Makes a lot of sense to escape from the automatic patterns of the fingers on the keyboard or the fretboard.Gongchime posted research that the most pleasing tempo in popular music is right around 120 bpm. And I like to write pieces at that speed, too, I find...actually a bit faster for me, personally.I find it challenging to write 00:15 or 00:30 cues. What helps me is realizing these are not "songs"...these are little "musical ideas", nothing more.Background music for libraries is really just little "pieces of a feeling", isn't it? Not really a song at all.I saw a Taxi post by Michael where he said "Tracks for TV, radio, documentaries, and corporate videos are usually requested in lengths of :2, :5, :10, :15, :30, :60, and 3:00."Wow... :2? :5? Those are just Seinfeld-like "blips and bloops and bass riffs", eh?But are you expected to have those lengths for each library piece?With a button ending on each?