Vienna Vs Los Angeles strings

[mikeymike2000]

Hello all,

I would like to know if anyone can comment on the differences and/or pros cons on the string samples from Vienna Symphonic Orchestra and LA Studio Strings.

I have VSO and it has pretty much all articulations and I think sounds incredibly realistic. A comment was made about my string sections in a big orchestra mix that they were not as competitive as others in this genre.

I am wondering if a little more articulation programming would do the trick or are the LA Studio Strings really that much better that would justify the cost? (The LS 2 version)

This may be impossible for anyone to answer so let's say if you had a choice to use one of the two libraries would you pick one over the other or would you be happy with both?

[guitaroboe]

Mike,
Myself and MANY of my composer friends at TAXI use LASS. LA Scoring Strings. I can think of at least 10 people
that I personally know who are big fans of the library. We all tend to agree that LASS is not only more realistic but
it also 'blends' much better with everything else on the virtual scoring stage. All samples were recorded with zero room
ambience so you can add any kind of reverb(s) to them. I do not own or have ever used any VSL sounds but I do use the
Vienna Ensemble Pro host software because my entire rig is based on that! Some friends of mine use VSL exclusively and they're
super happy with.
Whatever anyone uses, it all comes down to good programming and production chops. A LOT of tweaking goes into realistic
mock ups and even the best libraries may end up sounding horrible when they're not used properly. Practice makes perfect!
It never ends really...
Don't spend any money before you exhaust ALL avenues with what you already own.
HTH
Adonis

[mikeymike2000]

Thanks, Adonis!

I agree not to buy stuff until you have mastered what you have but I am of the mind that I have masted what I have.

Using VSL I was able to put in a staccato, detache, and sustain all in the same line with the low notes being triggers to change the articulation on a single track. Now that I think about it "blending" was one of the words in the comment.

Maybe I need to work on my mastering process as opposed to midi programming.

Thanks for the thoughts. It would be interesting for someone to weigh in who has Vienna and see the flip side look.

[mazz]

Without hearing the piece in question and seeing the comments, it's hard to tell whether it's simply the sound of VSL, your mix, or your programming that were the issue (or some combination thereof).

Simply switching articulations using keyswitches is usually not enough, it also takes time to make the articulations sound like they are part of a seamless line, which you may have mastered, again, without hearing it I can't tell.

I know a few folks that have used VSL to great effect and are still using it.

I started using LASS a couple of years ago and played one of the first pieces I did with it for a mentor at the Taxi Rally and she said the music was good but the issue was the strings. I was a little disappointed until I remembered my own advice: even the best libraries can sound "fake" without the right amount of tweakage performed on the tracks to get that real vibe. That meant I had to work harder to get the strings to sound great and really get under the hood with LASS and figure it out.

Let's hear the piece in question and take it from there. I'd hate to see you spend a grand on a new library when you might not need to.

Mazz

[mikeymike2000]

Hey Mazz,

OK. I was thinking about the $299 or $399 version but I would love an outside opinion to see where I should focus.

How do I get a link to my taxi profile on the bottom of the thread here? It would be the easiest way to show the piece in question.
I have no idea what my taxi profile URL is.

Quick addition: If you know how to access my profile here without the link the song is called "Shackleton's Voyage" and the comment was the strings did not blend well enough, particularly in the big string part near the end.

[mazz]

You can how I've done it in my signature and just paste your Taxi hosting name in place of mine and that's how you link to your page. I'm not sure what your hosting name is so I can't go to your page.

That should do it!

Mazz

PS: A lot of folks use SoundCloud to link music to. The Taxi page is cool but it's Flash and SoundCloud is iOS compatible which means I can play it on my iPhone or iPad! It's free to join.

http://soundcloud.com/john-mazzei-music

[mikeymike2000]

Ah -ha!

http://www.taxi.com/mikejriso

It was that easy huh?

[mazz]

Mike,

I listened to the piece.

To my ears, the strings, and everything else, sound very "up front" and dry. This makes the instruments sound artificial since we never hear these instruments this way in a musical context, particularly when someone is attempting to simulate a real orchestra, which is what it seems you're doing here.

There's also a 16th note slapback echo on the strings which makes them sound even more like a string synth instead of real strings.

Overall I'm hearing a lack of front to back depth, which is difficult to do anyway with samples. You may already know this, but it bears repeating, sounds lose their high frequency energy over distance. In an orchestra, the brightest things are the strings since they are the closest, and the horns sit behind the strings, typically to the left as you are facing the orchestra. So the horns won't be as bright from 20 feet away as they are when they are close mic'd in a dry room. In mixing you can accommodate this by using less brightness on your horns and putting them in their own reverb space.

Since we're on the subject of strings, to my ear, the string articulations sound very even, too even for live string players to execute. Even slight variations in velocity and expression control will breathe some life into the phrases. I know Vienna has built in controllers for different expressions, I have a couple of their individual instruments and the interface is built for using controllers for expressive moves. Grab a fader or a knob and add some emotion to the phrases!

To be honest, I don't think you've mastered the full depth and breadth of what can be done with VSL strings. I've heard some pretty impressive music done using VSL and so I know there is more there than you've presented.

Of course, this is all my opinion FWIW. Thanks for sharing your music and keep at it!!

Cheers!

Mazz

[mikeymike2000]

Thanks Mazz. I appreciate the comments.

I do have to say this cause it is not the first time I am hearing it: the 16th note "slapback" echo as you call it is not an effect. They are the notes I wanted played. Other people have asked me how I achieved that effect. It is nothing more than two staccato notes.

Aside from that I will look for videos on making better strings in VSL.

[TechNoiZ]

Getting the velocity X-fader to respond to your mod wheel will really help. You can do that in the Vienna Instrument player on the basic view page. I use that and Expression - both linked to the same CC controller. Putting a really short reverb on them will also give them a bit of air - less than a second at a level of around 50.

I am just finishing a piece which uses Flute 1 as a solo lead instrument - its on my profile; Aftermath. Don't discount the VSL library just yet - it can be an incredibly expressive instrument.