Vocal Recording Issue

[ajenkz]

I have a small set up prepared to record vocals. It works very well for me most of the time, but i've just run into an issue.First off, the setup is:A Tascam DP01 recorderA Sterling Audio ST55 Large Diaphragm CondenserTC Helicon Voice Tone Create Pedal for effectsPre Sonus Tube Pre PreampAntares AVP-1 Vocal Producerand when I need to edit something I can't do with my set up, I transfer everything onto Adobe Audition 1.5Now, the room acoustics and everything aren't that great, but I still manage to get good sounding vocals that i'm very happy with. However, the problem is im recording with pre-recorded instrumental beats. These have already been mixed and mastered in many cases. Still not a problem most of the time as I can get them to sit well in the mix with a little tweaking.However, a couple of the tracks are just extremely loud (im guessing from them being mastered already), and I have to pan it all the way into one headphone and have the volume on a 1 or 2 while recording to be able to get a good recording mix.Now that i've got the basic rough vocal tracks down for this particular song, the only way I can really get the vocals to be heard is to put them from around an 8-10 volume on the Tascam's mixer. However, i'm thinking this probably isn't a good idea?So how do I settle this? Will exporting my tracks to Adobe Audition and doing the volume increase thing on there help? I record WITH effects and all the processing on. I used to do it without but it just got too frustrating for me, so now I mess around until I get the sound I want for each track then record directly with it. I know this isn't really the smartest way to do it, especially when problems like this exist, but I just am not a pro at recording and don't have too awful long to dedicate to recording between everything else im doing.

[stevendavis]

Hey Ajenkz, kinda strange setup and writing procedure you got going there, not knocking it, strange is good sometimes. One easy fix I can think of is to take your premastered tracks and normalize them down below 0dB or 100%, I'm not familier with Adobe, I use Sound Forge myself. You might have to do a few takes to see where to normalize down to, but once you've got the premastered tracks down in level, then you can sing your take and get it down how you like it, then bring the whole mix back up to 0dB. Having never had to do this I can't say if normalizing down, then back up will add any artifacts? But I don't see why it should. This is just one way, I'm sure there are a hundred more ways. Hope this helps.

[ajenkz]

Well thats the problem... most times when you buy "beats", you just get sent the mixed and mastered wav file, all on one track, and without paying huge money (and even still in some cases), theres no way to get individual unmastered tracks, or even the file before it was mastered. Like I said, most of the times the instrumentals are fine, but with a few particular ones, I run into this problem.It is a unique set up haha I just get what I can afford and work with it. The writing process though is fairly normal for this kind of music, although I would prefer to do it all by scratch.

[billg]

I'm confused, why can't you just bring down the volume of your track? Seems that would be the logical way to get you more vocal headroom . . . or am I missing something?

[ajenkz]

I definitely can do that, but since all the instruments are on one track, you start to lose quality and the vocals start to drown it out; its not an even sound. I'll continue messing with it though and hopefully get a perfect balance.

[hummingbird]

I've tried this sort of thing before myself, and my conclusion was, having a bedtrack you record vocals over is okay for a karaoke style demo, but to mix a piece effectively you really need to have separate tracks. That's one reason why I decided to learn how to create & produce music myself. Not to be a wet blanket or anything... IMHO you aren't going to get the kind of quality you want doing it this way -- assuming you intend to pitch these tracks as representative of yourself as an artist.Hummin'bird

[ajenkz]

Yeah well thats the issue im dealing with right now. I've heard a ton of good demos done this way though with the same type of equipment im using, and I am getting good results with most of them. But still, these couple of tracks are proving to be pretty difficult, and they happen to be 2 of my favorites so i'm not sure what to do. I do have these 2 particular songs all tracked out in a way actually, but I believe they are just loops of each instrument and I would have to piece it back together in Fruity Loops I believe it is to get it back in song format before I can do the normalizing, and I dont have that kind of knowledge of the program nor do I even have the program to do it so im just stuck.Its getting a little discouraging seeing as how I just joined TAXI and im already having problems even getting the songs together, and I really dont have any other way to do songs haha

[mazz]

Some of what you are experiencing could possibly be helped by EQ. Since the mix is a full range mix, it wasn't mixed with vocals in mind so you need to carve out sonic space for your voice.Start by taking a medium bandwidth cut around 3 to 4 Khz, just 1 or 2 dB and see if it helps. I hope the terminology makes sense. For this type of Eqing it helps to have a parametric EQ although an upper midrange channel strip EQ could probably do OK as well. I"m not familiar with the Tascam so I don't know if it has one or not. What you are trying to do is take down some of the instruments in the intelligibility range so that the ear doesn't have to fight so hard to understand the words. The mix is probably pretty crowded already in that frequency range and that's why you have to turn the vocals up so loud.Another option would be to take your instrumental and vocal tracks in question to a studio and let them mix it while you watch and learn.Is it possible to request "stems" or submixes from the company you buy your tracks from? For example, you'd receive a few stereo tracks: one would be drums and maybe bass, the other would possibly be guitars, another keyboards, another strings and other sweeteners. Then you could have a little more control over the final mix.Are these songs you have written or are you pitching as an artist singing covers?Hope this helps,Mazz

[ajenkz]

Thanks a lot for the advice Mazz. I actually never even thought of messing with the EQ. The Tascam is just a small portable hard drive recorder, but it does have EQ controls, and if that doesn't do the trick I can use other computer programs to do it.I do actually have access to a studio owned by a relative and I will be using it for some things, but hes been extremely busy lately so I try to do everything I can on my own. Its a very last resort, but for these tracks I may have to if the EQ doesnt work, but I think that might do the trick actually.Several of the companys do offer stems and I always get them when I can, but this particular individual doesn't offer the stemmed out tracks.The songs im using are all instrumental music tracks written and created by different producers i've found online. Once I get the rights to use the song, I write my own lyrics and melodies and turn it into a regular song as opposed to an instrumental (they are all intended to be turned into songs though; there are always different sections for verses, choruses,bridges,etc.) Most of the companies/producers will let you use the track for whatever you want, and you keep all the profits, but i've gone ahead and double checked with them all to let them know the songs will be submitted to taxi and they are all fine with it.So no, they aren't cover songs, but the music aspect of these songs are always written by someone else. Hopefully eventually that will change, but right now im just not good enough at any one instrument to write and record the music myself. I am working with some friends on stuff though that i'll have more control over.As far as pitching myself as an artist, thats a big thing i've been wondering and second guessing about. I know most of the listings found on TAXI are looking for TV/Movie placement, and I plan to submit for that to, but im a little unsure about the ones looking for artists. I sing R&B/Pop type music, but the fact that i'm white and a little more old school and different with my vocal influences and style make it difficult. The ala's in the listings are what always throw me. The songs I have may be dead on for the listing, but my voice isn't exactly like the ala's listed. Do I submit or not submit? Or maybe vice versa. The voice is on target but the songs aren't quite on target; close but not exactly like the artists listed. What would you do in that situation? I'm asking this to any TAXI members with more experience with artist submissions. I'm in the rough spot of having a unique yet still commercial sound im building for myself, but not really knowing where to send my stuff to because of it.

[slideboardouts]

I agree with Mazz about the EQing. That should do wonders. I would also get away from buying beats as soon as possible like hummingbird suggested... whether you are doing the writing or collaborating with someone else. I've never been too crazy about the business of "slingin' beats" for a multitude of reasons. I know that thats just what you gotta do right now, but keep that high on your priorities even if it means learning an instrument. Speaking of instruments, I would learn the piano if I was in your situation. Its probably one of the easiest instruments to play, helps you get a good understanding of theory relatively painlessly, and if you can play the piano you can mimic a ton of instruments with today's technology.As far as your questions regarding pitching yourself as an artist, I think the best thing to do would be to get a song uploaded. There are a lot of people on this forum (not me ) that could help you target your submissions and answer your questions if they heard your stuff.-Steve