Vocal Training

[hummingbird]

Quote:"because I know of pleanty classical teachers who teach incorrectly by the book bel canto and damage voices all the time, because they refuse to wake up and study what modern science has proven about vocal technique."I don't think incorrect teaching is limited to teachers of classical technique. The fact is that the there are very few properly qualified teachers of any age, and the ones that are not properly qualified do a lot of damage. And I would also argue that qualified classical teachers are well-educated in the areas of voice pathology & pedagogy, certainly more educated than the average coach of pop or rock singers.Having a good foundation in healthy singing can be applied to any kind of style. And that is what any singing teacher should be imparting. I give my students a foundation in understanding their instrument & coach them on any kind of music they wish to sing. However, I do not teach people to scream as I do not believe that there is any method of screaming that is healthy for the longevity of the voice. In my studio it is about finding & releasing the voice with good support & learning about the instrument so that you can sing til your 90s and beyond. I have students who are in their 60s & early 70s who, if you close your eyes, sound like 22-year-olds when they sing. That's effective training.In addition, I work with people who have had damaged vocal chords & other issues who have been advised by their doctors to take some singing lessons with a qualified instructor. In all cases, they left the studio after several months of work, being able to sing on key with good tone. That's effective technique for healthy singing.H

[vicky]

hey there...sorry to jump in so late in the thread...Vikki are you familiar with speech-level singing?I took six months of lessons last year (I do backgrounds every Wednesday, so needed help since I'm such a beginner)I didn't stick with it, because I had all the lessons recorded, and there was alot to go over, also the teacher didn't sound in tune on the exercises, and it was very expensive, $100 per hour....I sort of like the speech-level singing approach, but it's the only one I know....Do you know anything about that technique?...I've always been interested in teachers that I want to sound like....Is there a specific technique you use...I love your voice...Vicky

[ajenkz]

Good to hear your doing so well with your teaching. I realize there are bad teachers in all genres of music. I point out classical because many classical teachers refuse to believe that anything other than their way is correct. Technology and science prove them wrong, but they stay stuck in their ways.Classical only training is counter productive to contemporary singers. You may disagree, but its the truth. You can apply classical technique to anything, yes, but its extra energy and time that would be better spent working with someone with more of a specialty in contemporary styles. Think about it;classical preaches a completely consistent voice in terms of tonality ; rock and pop music is much more conversational, and to be interesting you have to vary your pitch.classical methods were developed to help you sing over an orchestra without amplification; contemporary music is sung with amplification, and the dynamic levels go from a whisper to a 100+ decibel scream.classical methods rarely ever take a woman into their true chest voice, some even say it doesn't exist in women; contemporary, especially rock and pop, remains in chest voice a lot of the time. bringing head voice down sounds awkward and like aunt bee from andy griffith.classical methods feel a well rounded, full sounding tenor high c is the highest note a male should reach, and many opera singers like pavoratti are praised for their ability to reach these notes; in contemporary music, singers often sing this high, and often times an octave or two higher. the tone isn't the same, but it doesnt need to be, and probably shouldnt be. Many more examples, but I don't have the time. An opera singer with the operatic tone and heavy vibratto would sound horrible doing an intricate Stevie Wonder esque riff. Some can cross over; most cant. The same goes for an R&B singer doing opera as I said before.Also, its about 50/50 in terms of people knowing their stuff. A lot of modern coaches come from damaging experiences with classical methods at universities, so they turn to scientific research and are successful,effective, and safe. There are safe ways to scream. Some involve use of the false cords, some utilize the soft palate, but there are ways. You may disagree and I respect that, but all in all I didn't intend for this thread to turn into a debate. I've been through this many times before, as have my vocal mentors and every other contemporary coach I know. As I keep saying, I will be working with people in all capacities. People can choose if they want to do mp3 lessons or not, im not forcing anyone:) Also, the fact that there are thousands of books and CDs out there on vocal technique, even by some of the most respected classical teachers, should make you aware there are people very interested in learning in this way. Its not for everyone, but it works amazingly well for others. Nothing can replace a 1 on 1 teacher, but situations don't always allow it. This is an alternative for people; they can be self trained and go through trial and error, or they can have guidance to lead them in the right direction.

[vicky]

as far as i know Luciano Pavarotti and Stevie Wonder spent time with Seth Riggs ....you might want to go to his site there is a 3 hour master class ...to watch for free....Vicky

[hummingbird]

Ajenkz, you came on a public form and posted your views, and I've posted mine. My maestro would agree with you regarding university. A degree doesn't mean someone is a good teacher or knows how to sing. In fact, he had many university graduates in his studio. He said to me, 'they finish their degree in voice and then come to me to really learn how to sing.' In addition, someone may be a brilliant singer but a dismal teacher. In either case, unfortunately, the only way to tell is to hear their students.I'm not for a minute saying that classical voice is for everyone or for every voice. I don't teach opera. I teach people how to sing. That's it, period. I listen to their voice, and get know their way of thinking, and show them the way to access their voice & support it in a healthy manner. You may call that Bel Canto, I call it common sense based on 17 years of training & 10 years of teaching. If someone came to me and wanted to learn to scream, I would recommend they go elsewhere to someone educated in how to do that. If someone came to me and wanted to be a professional opera singer, I would recommend they go elsewhere, to someone educated in how to do that. I don't believe in generalities. I believe in focussed, individual instruction that deals only with the person in front of me, with their issues, psychologically, physically & vocally. I believe that is the only effective way to teach. As I said in my first post, if someone asks me about any method of singing & learning it from a book or a CD or mp3s I would advise against it. Someone who wants to sing who misunderstands instructions can do more harm than good. Singing is experiential, and students need to routinely experience the 'right' way in order to replace bad habits. Students need an energetic, enthusiastic, knowledgeable, supportive & intuitive teacher live with them in the room to understand what that means. This is my position, and although it is my opinion I believe it is an educated one. Vicky - I have heard of speech level singing but I have seen varied results from it & so have reservations. As I said above, although I teach vocal technique for healthy singing I don't think it is the teacher's job to impose their 'method' on the student. I think it is the teacher's job to listen with all their senses to the student, and use their intuitive skills & knowledge to assist the student to discover & free his/her authentic voice. That to me is true teaching, and I was tremendously lucky in my teachers to experience that kind of instruction first hand. I try to pay forward the gifts they gave me.

[ajenkz]

Point taken. However, reread the original message. I wasn't trying to sell or get opinions on if people agree with this type of teaching or not, just trying to see what kind of issues people have when they sing. I only mentioned the purpose because I wanted people to know why I was asking, hoping that it would help make them take it more serious and give an answer some thought. I didn't think this would turn into a debate, and that wasnt my intention, but I did try to clarify. I'll put this to rest though

[stephen]

Interesting thread and comments. I've heard so many opinions about about voice trainig etc that it can become confusing. Alot of trainers are not very qualified i.e. studied the necessary skills & fields to pass on to others along with experience. I personally believe that each student should be treated individually and taught techniques that apply to any genre. Proper breathing, proper stance, voice care etc however currently I'm doing a voice major and while I'm not a classical singer I've realised that there are benefits to be gained from a good classical foundation.

[hummingbird]

Quote:Interesting thread and comments. I've heard so many opinions about about voice trainig etc that it can become confusing. Alot of trainers are not very qualified i.e. studied the necessary skills & fields to pass on to others along with experience. I personally believe that each student should be treated individually and taught techniques that apply to any genre. Proper breathing, proper stance, voice care etc however currently I'm doing a voice major and while I'm not a classical singer I've realised that there are benefits to be gained from a good classical foundation.Good post & I totally agree

[mikegoudreau]

Wow this is quite a discussion !!I've never had a vocal lesson in 25 years of singing...My method was simple...sing,sing, sing, sing...In the car, in the shower, mowing the lawn, washing the car, washing the dishes and anywhere you can belt it out.... Not to mention 3 to 4 nights a week doing live gigs of 3 X 60 min sets...50 tunes per/night...The voice is a muscle and you need to exercise it...Practice makes it happen ! IMHO. Cheers !

[ggalen]

I would think that well-done CD or DVD lessons would be better than going to a poor vocal "teacher" who doesn't know what he or she is doing. Particularly if the poor teacher has a forceful, persuasive personality. All the better to hammer in the wrong technique!I don't have proof, but I strongly suspect there are no shortage of poor vocal coaches out there looking to make a some extra money, or even a living, from teaching voice lessons when they cannot get enough singing work.Ideally, I'd think one would choose a vocal coach by listening to her/his students before and after their training and hearing the difference!... and by talking to the student to see how much they enjoyed working with the teacher.I'd say go by actual results and reputation; not by a degree or some other piece of paper they have on the wall in the absence of results and proof of ability.