what technology can make orchestral sound most human?

[Susanstunes]

I put this up in P2P but realized someone here will know the answer.... Do these examples sound like they are played by humans? (I believe they mostly are humans playing ) and if so it begs the question: How best to compete for this listing if we don't have the most sophisticated recording tech ...or I daresay the $ or time to get it done with "humans"

NEW LISTING -- TRIUMPHANT, INSPIRATIONAL-Sounding ORCHESTRAL INSTRUMENTALS are needed by a really large media company for placements in several projects, including hit cable TV shows, other shows on their own network, and online media.

This rapidly growing industry giant is building its own Exclusive, In-House Music Library and will pay an initial buyout fee of $250 for 100% of the Publisher's share and Master rights. On top of the per track fee, you will also get 100% of the Writer's share of the publishing and make applicable performance income.

They're looking for Original, emotionally compelling compositions in All-Tempos that could be heard on a playlist with composers like Tyler Bates, Steve Jablonsky, Ramin Djawadi, etc., etc., etc. Please listen to the following references to get an idea of the vibe they need for this pitch:

"A Nova Upgrade" by Tyler Bates:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJTK-coj0Og

"Prime" by Steve Jablonsky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhizhXlbEys

"Finale" by Ramin Djawadi:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkFi6iria10

Give them Instrumental Cues with full string sections, triumphant horns, big percussion, and an overall feeling of epic inspiration. Your instrumentation should sound authentic and believable, like a real orchestra played by real humans! Any material that sounds dated, stiff, or obviously MIDI-driven won't work well for this pitch. Your Cues should build quickly, and keep building until they crescendo to an epic finish.

Thanks for your input! I am very very new at this type of recording (but I do have a Synth)
Susan
http://www.taxi.com/susanhillman
http://www.soundcloud.com/susanhillman

[Paulie]

The short and honest answer is that you cannot compete with the many quality and experienced composers out there if you are working with less than excellent sound libraries and a good understanding of the styles involved. Convincing orchestral cues require a lot of time and attention in order to get them sounding as real as possible. There are a lot of great videos out there that can help you understand how to make each section sound good. Here's a good list to start with:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 4C7E20230A

[Susanstunes]

Thank you for that! Honesty is the only way to improve.

[mojobone]

It's not really so much about the technology as in understanding how an orchestra is supposed to sound; after that, it's mainly a matter of owning massive amounts of really great samples and knowing how to bend them into arrangements that highlight their strengths, while hiding their weaknesses. Maybe also a matter of keeping up with the Joneses, without spending more than you make.



I've found tons of useful info on MIDI mockups on the VI Control forum; some sample library developers hang out there, too, so sometimes you can get the inside scoop straight from the horse's mouth, to mangle some metaphors.

[Len911]

I totally agree with Paulie and Mojo!

It's maybe not so much that you can't make convincing mockups if you have a decent orchestra library
with the most articulations, but for dipping your toe in the water to test it, not only are you competing with the gear heads on vi control forum, there are probably a gazillion people using various notation software like Sibelius or Finale, with degrees in composition and arrangement.

That said, it's true there might be 2 gazillion in the pop field, but there is probably more variation and genre. Plus vocals.

I suppose though if you want to try a different angle, convincingly realistic, there's probably not many in that field. Like focus more on what real rooms and halls sound like, crappy,lol!
Like what a live orchestra might sound like if just 2 room mics were used a distance from the orchestra.

Example:
Same performance, one was through mixer board, one from an audience member that takes sound from the hall

https://youtu.be/TyOIO6ideyY?t=6m35s

https://youtu.be/1ptNv840aVg

[Danny]

Some good advice from the above posts.

Aside from an awesome orchestra library and a basic knowledge of orchestration, there are some things I found you should ALWAYS do when composing Midi orchestration.

Use your mod wheel for dynamics. Gradually move it up and down to emulate the subtle nuances in dynamics. An orchestra or horn line played at an exact consistent volume will sound stiff and midi-like.

If you quantize an arpeggiated or rhythmic run, do so at 75-80 percent. Quantizing at 100 percent will take all of the human feel out of the track.

[Russell Landwehr]

Michael Laskow did a show with TAXI member Matt Hirt recently(ish). Matt talked about this very subject. It's definitely worth watching.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/65530803

Russell

[Susanstunes]

Thanks Russell

[mojobone]

To expand a little further, cuz it's such a deep subject, it helps to be aware of all the various articulations. For example with brass instruments, along with your shorts, longs and legatos, you have shakes, falls, doits and growls, plus glissandi and slurs for the trombones-all of which you might hear in the space of a couple seconds of a Trombone Shorty solo, so...a keyboard isn't an ideal controller for strings and winds. For druthers, a wind controller can more easily produce believable lines, and same goes for percussion and pads controllers.

Yamaha's WX11 is one piece of technology that actually can be of help, if you're comfortable on any sort of wind-powered instrument-mapping breath pressure to bow pressure can literally breathe life into what would otherwise be static-sounding lines. A lot of folks try to play the notes in and then the controllers, but that's very tedious and difficult and it seldom works as well as if you're able to play it all in at once. Still if you're meticulous, you can cobble the bits together in unreal time.