Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

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andygabrys
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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by andygabrys » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:18 pm

gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:54 am
I had distorted headphones and I was mixing for like three years thinking I knew what I was doing.
So you had no monitors? How did you figure out the headphones were distorting?
gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:54 am
ha ha ha ha ha. It cracks me up now. I realize I'm a special kind of stupid, because those three years were pretty much a waste.
Likely not. There are a lot of things to work out in mixing.
gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:54 am
Now, I have pair of headphones that is closer to flat response monitors, but I believe there is no substitute for good near field monitors.
Good is all relative - its a veritable minefield of things to work out when it comes to buying monitors. If you have a small room, a lot of people buy small drivers (5" or 6") which means your low end extension is not very flat. If you buy bigger drivers, then you have more problems with bass resonance in a small room and you need treatment, and low monitoring levels, headphones for cross reference, and usually a frequency analyzer to be able to make things translate.

So you can spend $2k on a set of Focal 6s but then....?
gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:54 am
What do they call it, crossfeed? ........I'm trying to talk about the fact that headphones have no crossfeed while speakers do.
But that's mostly an issue for panning and spatial placement. there are boxes which can add some cross-feed (real or effect).

Like this $$$: https://www.avshop.ca/recording-studio- ... b9dcd0f1f1

HTH

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by gregorym » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:37 pm

Hi Andy! Good to hear from you.

I didn't really figure out that my headphones where giving me a distorted perspective. My friend said, "Do you trust me?" Long story short, I got the headphones he recommended, Sony MDR - 7506. I was immediately shocked to listen to the difference.

I was exaggerating about those three years being a waste. I must admit, all of my music friends were listening to my mixes and saying very similar things.

"You need to work on your mixing."
"I can't really hear the bass."
"There's too much bass." - I know, how's that happen.
"The drums are too loud." - I like drums

I would brush these comments off, because I knew full well it had to be the system they were listening on. It couldn't be the mix. I read three books on mixing and countless videos on youtube. I worked really hard at it. I was certain that the Bose system wasn't worth the money. I don't mean to be offensive, but I really thought everyone else was nuts. What's the saying? Ignorance is bliss. I wish I would have listened to everyone sooner.

Good news. I mixed using the Sony. Then the comments were...

"Ohhh, this is nice."
"What did you do? The balance is really good."
"I could hear this being played on tv."
"You should mix our next project." - My friend who recommended the headphones.

I hope my story helps someone in need of a good laugh or headphones.

Back on topic...Andy, where did you learn to produce, mix, master, etc? I would love to hear what you have to say.

Thanks all,
Later

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by andygabrys » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:50 pm

gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:37 pm
Back on topic...Andy, where did you learn to produce, mix, master, etc? I would love to hear what you have to say.
Learned on my own. Did an internship at a music house which helped me see what some people did then it was all on me. I studied music in school before that but it was all composition - not music production.

All I have to say is A/B comparisons - if you can hear a difference, then you can get a resource (book, youtube, friend / mentor etc) which can help you figure out what to do.

If you can't hear a difference, your listening is usually just not fine tuned enough. It takes time.

And not everyone is a master of every subject and genre, even after doing this for a long time.

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by cosmicdolphin » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:40 pm

gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:54 am
I have Mike Senior's book, too. It started me off with mixing. I read the first section about monitors and it didn't sink in until several years later. It is the most important detail of the whole book, I think. I had distorted headphones and I was mixing for like three years thinking I knew what I was doing. ha ha ha ha ha. It cracks me up now. I realize I'm a special kind of stupid, because those three years were pretty much a waste. Now, I have pair of headphones that is closer to flat response monitors, but I believe there is no substitute for good near field monitors. What do they call it, crossfeed? Crossfeed (i think that is the term), I'm trying to talk about the fact that headphones have no crossfeed while speakers do. Anyway, thanks for your throughts, Mark. Very helpful.
I have a Behringer Monitor2usb that has a crossfeed button for the headphones..it certainly makes them sound more monitor -like.... or there are various plugins that can do it too

I don't think there is any substitution for half decent monitors though in a well sorted room ..I read good things about Sonarworks Reference4 if headphones are your only option...I have an Avantone mixcube ( mono ) on Mike's reccomendation as well and it really is a useful tool.

There's 2 sides to this music licensing game - Writing & Produuction..I would say production trumps writing in my experience.

Mark

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by cosmicdolphin » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:48 pm

andygabrys wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:50 pm
And not everyone is a master of every subject and genre, even after doing this for a long time.
Speak for yourself Bro !

Nah..I'm kidding ...I usually think evrything I do sucks. Sometimes I am wrong. :roll:

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by andygabrys » Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:51 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
cosmicdolphin wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:48 pm
andygabrys wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:50 pm
And not everyone is a master of every subject and genre, even after doing this for a long time.
Speak for yourself Bro !

Nah..I'm kidding ...I usually think evrything I do sucks. Sometimes I am wrong. :roll:

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by gregorym » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:24 pm

andygabrys wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:50 pm
gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:37 pm
Back on topic...Andy, where did you learn to produce, mix, master, etc? I would love to hear what you have to say.
Learned on my own. Did an internship at a music house which helped me see what some people did then it was all on me. I studied music in school before that but it was all composition - not music production.

All I have to say is A/B comparisons - if you can hear a difference, then you can get a resource (book, youtube, friend / mentor etc) which can help you figure out what to do.

If you can't hear a difference, your listening is usually just not fine tuned enough. It takes time.

And not everyone is a master of every subject and genre, even after doing this for a long time.
This brings up a question I've been struggling with and I wonder if anyone else does or doesn't do this.

Youtube doesn't allow us to download the audio. However there are sites that rip the audio out and let you download music from youtube. I would think this is NOT allowed. Of course, it would make A/B so much easier. I would be able to compare my track to the reference track in my daw. I imagine we should buy the reference tracks and then we can reference them. That's the way. Yes?

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by gregorym » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:27 pm

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:48 pm
andygabrys wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:50 pm
And not everyone is a master of every subject and genre, even after doing this for a long time.
Speak for yourself Bro !

Nah..I'm kidding ...I usually think evrything I do sucks. Sometimes I am wrong. :roll:
he he he. I feel the same way, but everything I do does suck. People are yelling at me ALL the time. "Do this...do that."

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by andygabrys » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:50 pm

gregorym wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:24 pm
andygabrys wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:50 pm
gregorym wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:37 pm
Back on topic...Andy, where did you learn to produce, mix, master, etc? I would love to hear what you have to say.


This brings up a question I've been struggling with and I wonder if anyone else does or doesn't do this.

Youtube doesn't allow us to download the audio. However there are sites that rip the audio out and let you download music from youtube. I would think this is NOT allowed. Of course, it would make A/B so much easier. I would be able to compare my track to the reference track in my daw. I imagine we should buy the reference tracks and then we can reference them. That's the way. Yes?
Yeah you can use a variety of things for YouTube.

But if you are doing this as a business, buy the downloads off the iTunes Store and ref against those - noting of course that iTunes downloads will be louder than YouTube for the same song. Tax write off!!

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Re: Where did you learn to compose, mix and master??

Post by cosmicdolphin » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:32 am

gregorym wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:24 pm
This brings up a question I've been struggling with and I wonder if anyone else does or doesn't do this.

Youtube doesn't allow us to download the audio. However there are sites that rip the audio out and let you download music from youtube. I would think this is NOT allowed. Of course, it would make A/B so much easier. I would be able to compare my track to the reference track in my daw. I imagine we should buy the reference tracks and then we can reference them. That's the way. Yes?
I could not condone such a thing..that would be almost as bad as using the loopback recording feature on your soundcard !

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