Wind controller synths

[remmet]

It suddenly dawned on me - after a few decades of not thinking about it - that a wind controller synth would be very useful. In the past, I played several wind instruments, so I would expect to get up and running fairly quickly. And the thought of creating fully expressive melodic lines without all the mind-numbing programming sounds very appealing.

The choices seem to be the Yamaha WX5 and the Akai Ewi4000s. I've heard that the Ewi has a steeper learning curve, but the control capabilities are richer. Has anyone had experience using either of these instruments?

Richard

[mazz]

The akai USB model is less expensive than the 4000. It doesn't have built in sounds. It has trumpet fingering which is what I'm used to but it's not as straightforward enough to just picjk up and play. If you play flute or a reed then I think its going to be easier. For realistic wind parts, particularly if the samples are well formatted for wind controllers, it's an awesome way to go.

[Len911]

Richard, I have the akai ewi usb, I bought it bundled with brass 2.0. The ewi usb comes standard with garritan aria software. I don't play a horn but I think it comes with several fingerings, ewi, sax, flute oboe. The trumpet and trombone samples sound really good in brass 2.0, but the sax leaves much to be desired. I have a regular garritan orchestral that I never use because it sounds, well crappy, though the ewi bundled garritan sounds much better, probably due to the expressiveness the ewi offers to the less than stellar samples. I bought it thinking I would write a song with horns, but haven't yet,lol! I've played with it, but since I haven't learned fingerings I set cubase to play in scale.
As far as blowing, bite, using the rollers, is really easy to get accustomed to. It takes a very light touch.
And as Mazz says, the samples being compatible with the controllers is perhaps the main thing. The 4000 is probably more professional or has more professional samples associated with it.
Another important tip is to uninstall any webcam software or at least the Logitech software because it conflicts with the ewi usb software.
Here is a great link that has info on all the major controllers and sound banks you can buy.
http://www.patchmanmusic.com/akaiEWI4000s.html

[mazz]

The SampleModeling instruments all have a Wind Controller mode. There are lots of videos out there on the web of folks controlling those libraries with the Akai USB, the SM libraries respond really well to the wind controllers. I've never even opened the Aria software except to configure the hardware the first time. I think one could do nice string lines with this thing as well.

I'd go with the USB model, I don't think you'll need the sounds in the 4000.

Be prepared for a bit of a learning curve.

[remmet]

Thanks for your replies, John and Len. (John, your second post came in just as I was about to post my first reply, so I'll revise mine.)

I think I'm leaning toward the Ewi4000s, mainly because of the large array of sounds available through Patchman, although you do have a point about the SM libraries, which is good to know. I wish I had the time necessary to devote toward programming my own sounds for perfect compatibility with a wind controller, but if great sounds are already available through Patchman, I might as well take advantage of it. But I'll also look more closely at the USB version and see if it makes sense for me.

So at this point, my current wishlist includes:

Ewi4000s (or USB)
Hollywood Strings
Apogee Ensemble interface
Martin 0028VS (or similar vintage-style model)
South American Charango
Gretsch 6120 Chet Atkins model (to replace the one I stupidly sold years ago)
And finally, a job!

Richard

[mojobone]

As a former saxophonist, I'm pretty much stuck with the WX series, since I have a habit of resting my fingers on the keys, and need a bit of resistance and key travel to feel comfortable. If you need realistic sounds, I'd recommend the Samplemodeling line. WIVI brass works pretty well with wind controllers, too, as does Yamaha's modeled sounds in the VL70M, which has a special WX input. All of the above are on my ever-lengthening wishlist, heh.

[mazz]

I feel like I need to further qualify my comments, Richard:

If you need more synth sounds, then by all means pick up the 4000. But if you're looking to emulate real orchestral instruments, IMO you're better off getting the USB for several hundred dollars less, and investing in libraries like SampleModeling, which work really really well with Wind Controllers out of the box. I don't think even the Patchman patches will get you any love in the orchestral mockup world for realism. I've heard from a game composer who's work I respect that the WIVI instruments really can work well in a mix when played with a wind controller as well.

IMO, the extra sounds are not worth the extra money unless you need more synth type sounds in your arsenal. I know you do a lot of orchestral work which is what I was basing my initial comments on.

[remmet]

John, you make some excellent points. In more carefully considering what I want to use this for, yes, definitely orchestral winds and brass (not so sure about strings). But I also frequently find myself looking for expressive melodic sounds for the ambient pieces I write, where exact acoustic instrument emulation isn't the main concern. In those instances, I still want high-quality, organic-sounding sounds, but not necessarily those of real instruments. With that in mind, would you still recommend the USB?

As always, thanks for your suggestions and advice!

Richard

I feel like I need to further qualify my comments, Richard:

If you need more synth sounds, then by all means pick up the 4000. But if you're looking to emulate real orchestral instruments, IMO you're better off getting the USB for several hundred dollars less, and investing in libraries like SampleModeling, which work really really well with Wind Controllers out of the box. I don't think even the Patchman patches will get you any love in the orchestral mockup world for realism. I've heard from a game composer who's work I respect that the WIVI instruments really can work well in a mix when played with a wind controller as well.

IMO, the extra sounds are not worth the extra money unless you need more synth type sounds in your arsenal. I know you do a lot of orchestral work which is what I was basing my initial comments on.

[mazz]

That's a tough call. I think with so many great sound sources available today, for instance Omnisphere, the Rob Papen stuff, the stuff in Komplete and even products from a lot of small developers, it's going to be a choice between getting just a plain controller (USB) and modifying the patches in VIs to accommodate the Wind Controller response, or buy a controller with built in sounds or possibly buy the USB and invest in the Patchman patches instead of spending the extra money for the internal sounds.

If it's a question of money and you already have a bunch of great synths, then I'd get the USB and tweak the synths. If on the other hand it's a time vs money issue where you'd rather spend the time playing and writing rather than tweaking and customizing existing synth sounds, then buying something with great sounds that are already married to the controller out of the box might be worth the extra bucks.

Given your needs, that's how I would weigh it.

Mazz

[remmet]

Thanks again John. This is helping me focus on the core issues. One thing that's been a little hard to discern from the info I've been reading is whether the USB instrument will send out MIDI data to, for instance, a DP MIDI track so it can be edited like any other MIDI track and then played back through the sound source. I think the answer is yes, but I'm not quite sure how the USB signal generates MIDI data or whether I'll need a new MIDI interface to make it work.

From what I've read, the main differences between the 4000s and the USB models are that the USB needs to be connected to a computer (which is fine; it's for studio use, not playing gigs). The 4000s stores its own (and/or other's) internal sounds, and has more processing capabilities, as well as a 7 octave range. The USB has a 5 octave range and there have been complaints that the low and high octave rollers are situated in a cramped way. I've seen some discussion suggesting that the USB isn't quite as expressive in its control capabilities as the 4000s, but I don't know if that's been proven or is just a subjective impression.

Certainly the lower price on the USB makes it quite attractive. I already have the SM trumpet, and many of the Patchman and Wallander sounds are very good. Since at the moment, I have more time than money, the best choice may be the USB model, assuming that it will create MIDI tracks that are editable.

Thanks again John, Len, and Mojo.

Richard